Sioux Chief Push-Tite Gasket Flange

[cpres]

This is a PVC flange with a rubber gasket around it. You basically just push it down into the drainpipe and screw it to the flooring. I was wondering if there would be an issue if I slid the gasket up towards the top of the flange. This would be opposed to being at the very bottom of the piping.

So, essentially, there would be the flange ring, the gasket beneath it expanded against the drainpipe, and then a few inches of the bottom of the PVC beneath the gasket. I know the standard is to have the gasket at the bottom of the PVC, but I was wondering if it would be a problem if it were at the top.

This is a lead drainpipe by the way (ugh). I am trying to not have to replace it.

Any opinions?

 

[Reach4]

Is that the 886-GP? http://www.siouxchief.com/products/drainage/residential/closet-flanges/pushtite

I think the gasket sits in a groove. Still, if it seems stable once you slide the gasket up, I would guess it would work. I might put some plumber's grease or maybe even pipe dope on the gasket tips.

What is your motivation? Does the upper part of the hole seem smoother?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Standardairconditioner]

Photos from you would be best here, but I'll give a generalized observation.

The problem with lead flanges is that they often aren't uniform, both the I.D. of the waste pipe itself and the hammered out flare to hug the flange under it.

This is why you can't fit the gasket into it, and why you want to slide it up so it won't have to squeeze into the waste pipe.

Do your best to get a (sub)floor under that flare, and then screw down a repair flange underneath the flare.

Once you have that, you can use anything that is NOT a Push-Tite. Regular or waxless ring should work.

 

[cpres]

Is that the 886-GP? http://www.siouxchief.com/products/drainage/residential/closet-flanges/pushtite

Thanks, Reach.

I think the gasket sits in a groove. Still, if it seems stable once you slide the gasket up, I would guess it would work. I might put some plumber's grease or maybe even pipe dope on the gasket tips.

What is your motivation? Does the upper part of the hole seem smoother?

Yes, that is the correct model. My motivation is that the flange sits tight on top of the tile when I slide the gasket up. When I let it sit at the bottom, the right side of the flange is slightly raised above the floor, which makes that closet bolt very much less stable.

I was thinking if the gasket HAS to be at the bottom of the PVC, I could always cut the PVC down where I could leave the gasket high, but still be at the bottom of the PVC because the PVC will be cut down to that spot...

Standard, I will try to get a picture up.

 

[Reach4]

I think your assessment sounds reasonable. I am not a pro.

I would tend to prefer one with a stainless steel flange, but for some reason, the ones with the PVC flange seem to have have a better looking gasket. One great thing about the Push-Tite: if that PVC flange were to fail mechanically, it would be much easier to swap out than a glued-in flange.

Here is an idea that will surprise you:
http://www.siouxchief.com/docs/defa...n---pushtite---instruction-sheet.pdf?sfvrsn=6
While that article is about extending a flange, it seems possible to me to take a section of flange out. Yet I can't say the result after all of that work would be better than your proposal.

 

[cpres]

Thanks for looking into it, Reach. I appreciate your quick response and thanks for the "I'm not a pro" statement. Haha. Always seems like nothing works quite right the first time.

I may just use the flange with the gasket pushed up. I just cannot quite see anything that would make this option worse than sliding the gasket down to the bottom of the PVC. I'll wait and see if anyone can inform me to any drawbacks.

Thanks again.

 

[Standardairconditioner]

The reason for the push-tite gasket is so that it completely seals off the I.D. of the waste pipe. The gasket isn't designed to work by gravity by laying it on top of something, it needs to be compressed by the waste pipe.

Otherwise you'll have sewage gases coming into your home. The worst gases are the ones that are odorless. This results in years/decades of sleeplessness, bad tempers, mood swings, incorrect auras, spousal arguements, etc.

It's not the end of the world if you don't have a flange above the (new) floor. The most important things is that the flange is securely fastended down, so it can support the toilet from being pushed and wobbled during service.

People often tile around a flange and that's ok if the drop in depth isn't over an inch. This is a common subject in this forum, search around and you'll find many solutions for it.

 

[cpres]

The reason for the push-tite gasket is so that it completely seals off the I.D. of the waste pipe. The gasket isn't designed to work by gravity by laying it on top of something, it needs to be compressed by the waste pipe.

Otherwise you'll have sewage gases coming into your home. The worst gases are the ones that are odorless. This results in years/decades of sleeplessness, bad tempers, mood swings, incorrect auras, spousal arguements, etc.

It's not the end of the world if you don't have a flange above the (new) floor. The most important things is that the flange is securely fastended down, so it can support the toilet from being pushed and wobbled during service.

People often tile around a flange and that's ok if the drop in depth isn't over an inch. This is a common subject in this forum, search around and you'll find many solutions for it.

Thanks for the explanation. The gasket is compressed against the pipe, by the way.

 

[Jadnashua]

As already mentioned, that flange gasket is NOT designed to work with a lead toilet bend. It might have trouble with an older cast iron one as well as it needs a smooth, nice and round surface to make a seal to, that is a specified diameter. Lead pipe like that is rarely perfectly round, and may have nicks and irregularities in the circumference.

 

[cpres]

Oh I see. Thanks. Damned lead...

 

[cpres]

So my lead pipe does not have a flange on it. I hammered off the ring cause it was old and in really bad shape. Is there any other type of flange I can use other than folding the pipe out over a ring?

 

[Standardairconditioner]

An ugly rusty flange that is still solid in one piece is still a good flange. I think you may have pounded out a perfectly good flange. It's ok for a flange to be ugly.

You're not reading the good replies that everyone is answering. The answer is in the above.

You may need to call a professional.

 

[cpres]

Haha. Okay. Thanks again.

 

[Reach4]

As already mentioned, that flange gasket is NOT designed to work with a lead toilet bend.

Do you have a basis for saying such a thing?

 

[Jadnashua]

A pro could replace or maybe repair what you have. You, working with lead, may have a problem. One more common method is to remove all of the lead back to the hub in the cast iron, and replace that with pvc. That may be within your capabilities, maybe not.

 

[Reach4]

http://www.siouxchief.com/docs/defa...inage/closet-flanges---brochure.pdf?sfvrsn=12 says

While most closet flanges have a solvent weld joint, Sioux Chief’s Push Tite™ uses a tough, engineered elastomer gasket to seal against the inside wall of a drain pipe. The clean, simple installation makes it perfect for repair or remodeling jobs. The installer need only push it in and fasten it to the floor. The Push Tite works well with various piping materials – ABS, PVC, cast iron, and even some copper and lead pipes. It has the largest outlet diameter of any comparable flange on the market and also has smooth inner walls with no obstructions or ledges to cause clogs. The extended outlet length of the Push Tite helps it to seal against the inner wall of the drain pipe, even when additional flooring is added or the pipe is cut below the floor.​

 

[Jadnashua]

A NEW lead riser MAY work, but an older one after being beaten into shape and knocked around to bend over a flange, then, with work afterwards to try to remodel, is not a very reliable seal in all circumstances. You want something you KNOW will work, not something that MAY work. To me, the risk is not worth the potential end result. Once the toilet is down, it would be nearly impossible to verify it was working as needed.

 

[Jadnashua]

System created a duplicate...Terry's use of videos and unverified certificates gives my anti-virus program fits, and confuses the forum's logic to prevent duplicates.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

The main problem is that the inside of a lead bend is not perfectly round, so the seal of your pvc flange will not be likely to properly seal the joint.

 

[cpres]

This has been a super informative thread. I am so glad I asked and you folks have all provided great explanations on why the gasket may/may not work on the lead pipe.

I never really gave the bending inside of the lead drain pipe much thought and just assumed since the flange was really tight (in the sense that I had to use a lot of force to move it around/pull it out) when I inserted the Push-Tite that everything was pretty good to go.

I considered replacing the lead with PVC but, as you said, I think it may have been beyond what I can do. I would have had to go in through the basement ceiling to do all of the removal. Was hoping I could get by without it.

So what I can assess from everyone is that the Push-Tite would be fine if it were a perfectly uniform pipe interior, but with an old lead pipe, chances are that it is not uniform and it would be a bit of a gamble for me. It COULD work, but who the hell knows. Also, I am guessing that because of the pipe being lead inside, that is probably why the flange is not level when the gasket is at the bottom of the PVC, but it is level when I slide the gasket up a few inches. That is nuts!

Great thread. I learned a lot. Wish the news would have been better. Haha. Nothing ever seems to go smoothly when fixing stuff up in a house.

This is my first bathroom gutting and remodel. Everything has been tricky as hell so far, but I have made it this far. Once I figure out this last piece of the puzzle, I am done. Can't wait.