Shower Catridge Knocking

[mmessier2]

We purchased and had professionally installed a Vasilis Shower System. It has a 40mm HJ-40 cartridge in the valve. Immediately after install we noticed a knocking sound when any other water is turned on or off in the house from the wall of the shower. It especially occurs when the washer is running (water hammer). After intense searching for pipes, we were able to isolate the cause of the knocking to the shower mixer valve. When we removed the valve we noticed that when you shake the valve, a cylindrical metal piece slides back and forth- which creates the noise. We thought that replacing the cartridge would fix it, so we ordered an exact replacement

https://www.amazon.com/HJ-40-Faucet-Cartridge-Replacement-Diameter/dp/B00DVLQXR4

The new cartridge makes the same noise! This must be a design flaw. Is there any way to fix this, or another cartridge type that I can use? This is driving me insane. I even installed water hammer suppressors on the washer, but this knock is so sensitive it even does it when sink faucets go on and off. No other showers in the house make this noise.

Please help! Suggestions?

 

[seann]

Hard to say why exactly without seeing it. I'm not sure about the knocking sound? But if it is making a rumbling/howling/vibratiing or other wierd noise in your walls when running the other futures in the house, like you say?
I have ran into this before. I'm not sure if I will describe this in a way you will understand what I am saying, but I will try...

It happens a lot of times if you install a new shower valve. Usually after installing a new valve, I will install a threaded plug (usually a short length of black iron pipe with a cap on the end of it) into where the shower arm comes out of the wall for the shower head. And then I solder a copper cap on to the 1/2" copper that comes out for the tub spout. Then I can turn the shower valve (faucet) on and leave it pressurized in order to make sure there are no leaks from a solder joint or PEX connection. (Same applies for shower only)
If you run water from other fixtures or faucets in the house while the shower valve you installed is in the ON position and plugged as I described, then you will get some pretty loud vibrating (or how you want to describe it) noise coming from the walls in the house. Usually near the shower valve you just installed, but not always. I've had this happen on pressure balancing type shower valves which most of them are now these days..
I cannot tell you the exact causation of this phenomenon, but it's almost certainly result of the pressure balancing mechanism in the shower valve/cartidge vibrating because the water is louping back through the shower valve because it creates an open connection with the shower being on, but plugged. Example. The water supply is pushing itself from the cold side inlet of your shower valve over into the hot water side inlet in your shower valve creating a wierd vibration into the pressure balancing device. If you simply go over to the shower valve that you have in the on position and plugged, and turn the handle to the off position the noise will stop immediatly. It is amazing how loud a little bit of vibration in a water line can be.
A likely suspicion without seeing it in person, is that your cause is similar in nature. You have water louping back through your pressure balancing device or mixing valve or whatever else new has been installed in your remodel. Also check to make sure if there is any shut off valve or devices to shut off water flow on your new plumbing that they are all the way open.
Another thing to look at is to make sure the "mixing valve" that you speak of is properly installed. Meaning it is not installed upside down, or the inlet or outlet are piped in the correct direction.
Hope that helps.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[mmessier2]

seann, thank you very much for your reply. I uploaded a short video of the valve and the sound it makes to help describe what is happening. Please let me know what you think. Thank you!

 

[hj]

The clicking sound in the cartridge is the pressure balancing spool working. If it did NOT make the noise then there would be a problem with it. There is a problem in the system which causes a major pressure imbalance when faucets are used, and the sound you hear is the spool adjusting for the pressure drop in one of the water lines.

 

[seann]

Yes that is the pressure balancing spool like HJ said. Is it doing it when the shower valve is in the off position?

 

[mmessier2]

Yes that is the pressure balancing spool like HJ said. Is it doing it when the shower valve is in the off position?

Yes, it does it when the valve is in the off position. Its really bad when the washer is cycling, but also noticeable when faucets turn on and off. Thx

 

[seann]

I

 

[hj]

The spool doesn't care if the faucet is on or off. The spool is ahead of the shutoffs.

 

[Dcrabtree81]

Yes, it does it when the valve is in the off position. Its really bad when the washer is cycling, but also noticeable when faucets turn on and off. Thx

Hey did this ever get resolved. Dealing with virtually the same issue with the same cartridge model.

 

[mmessier2]

Hey did this ever get resolved. Dealing with virtually the same issue with the same cartridge model.

Check out the comments on my youtube video... we came up with a fix, but this is an awful problem

 

[Hila]

Hi, I have similar issue and was trying to see the comments on the YouTube, but they are disabled. Can you please share what was the fix for this issue?

 

[Hila]

Check out the comments on my youtube video... we came up with a fix, but this is an awful problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqAGuPpLAvM

Hi, I have similar issue and was trying to see the comments on the YouTube, but they are disabled. Can you please share what was the fix for this issue?

 

[daveydoo]

Good Day. I also have the same issue and would love to know the fix please.

 

[Danli]

The reason for this noise is the balancing bar in the cartridge. You can watch a video on Youtube -

Your cartridge may be little bit different, but the mechanism is same. The fix is quite simple by adding two o-ring into the cartridge.

 

[BSJ]

It's a Chinese standard valve not US. The solution is to replace the self-balance cartridge with a regular one.
DM me if you want to know where to buy a replacement since I can't post a sale link here.

 

[BSJ]

I fixed the issue by replacing the cartridge with non-pressure balancing cartridge. Water hammer is gone.

 

[BSJ]

Replaced with this one, 40mm cartridge. Replace the cartridge along with the cylinder.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001425016112.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.762f4c4dW7yua9

 

[JWS]

We had the same issue with a brand new KES mixing valve in the shower - despite putting in surge arrestors both hot and cold. Tore into the wall, replaced the copper with PEX and still had the issue. Turned down the pressure at the main PRV from 60 PSI to 40, and still had the issue. Then saw the YouTube video from Igor on this thread and pulled out the cartridge and tried the o-ring trick, but had a hard time trimming the thickness of the o-rings to allow the balancer spool to still work correctly, yet not continue to rattle so much. Finally, since the wall was still open, placed in-line check valves on both cold and hot supplies, just upstream from the mixing valve inlets - and it works beautifully! No more rattling no matter which other taps we turn on our off, or the toilets or the washer or anything!

 

[WorthFlorida]

This might have been my first post on this forum. The same issue but with a Danco cartridge.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/water-hammer-knock-danco.32514/

 

[Jdh3]

I have the same issue and was wondering if anyone had a replacement cartridge part number that works. I’m still considering cutting a hole in the wall to install inline check valves but trying to avoid it if possible.
I also wondered about disabling the pressure balance bar movement and locking it in the middle position (allowing the opening and closing of the valve to control the water).
The valve cartridge I have is
https://www.ceramiccartridge-tw.com/product-JH04BD-JH04BD.html