Should water Pressure reducing regulator pressure be constant

[RonL1]

When connected to house plumbing that is supplied by a well, shouldn't a pressure regulator flow valve keep the pressure steady ? The well pressure will cycle from 38 to 60 psi, and I have the regulator set for 28 pounds, but as the well cycles, the pressure will go from 28 to 35. (This is supplying a geothermal heat pump, so I need steady pressure to regulate the flow through the flow control valve) this let's the water flow change from 4 gpm up to 6gpm ... I need a steady 4.5, or at least close.
I was assuming the pressure regulator would keep the pressure steady. Maybe it has to do with the valve orientation. Right now it's vertical. Should these valves be positioned horizontal, with the bell down or up ? I'm using an apollo model 69ELF114TWG.
Thanks for your help.

 

[Breplum]

Orientation is not relevant on PRV because they just use a spring/diaphragm. Apollo is a cheap brand but I don't know how finely regulated any PRV can be regardless of brand quality because they are primarily designed to protect just the upper limit.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[John Gayewski]

They only regulate so the sytem doesn't go above the set point. They can definately go below.

Imagine your water line got cut. How would a regulator keep you from losing pressure once you open a faucet? It can't force water into the system it can only protect against overpressure.

The only way a system with a functioning prv can get above the set point is from thermal expansion of the water/glycol.

 

[RonL1]

the well pressure is 40, I set the regulator at 30, the well pressure goes up to 60,
The regulator pressure goes to 35.
So, why does the pressure go up as my well pressure goes up ?

 

[LLigetfa]

So, why does the pressure go up as my well pressure goes up ?

Because it is a basic single stage regulator. Not all regulators are created equal.

 

[RonL1]

So, being a novice at this, aren't these regulators not supposed to go over the set pressure if the supply pressure goes up, and not go under as long as the supply pressure doesn't go under the set pressure ? Assuming the regulator works like it's suppose to .

 

[LLigetfa]

So, being a novice at this, aren't these regulators not supposed to go over the set pressure if the supply pressure goes up, and not go under as long as the supply pressure doesn't go under the set pressure ? Assuming the regulator works like it's suppose to .

Perhaps open a support ticket with the manufacturer to see if that is as good as it gets. Alternately, you could put two units in series, the first one set to 40 PSI and the second one set to 30 PSI.

 

[RonL1]

Perhaps open a support ticket with the manufacturer to see if that is as good as it gets. Alternately, you could put two units in series, the first one set to 40 PSI and the second one set to 30 PSI.

I was actually thinking about doing that... thanks !

 

[Fitter30]

Single stage regulator won't do what your wanting need at least a 2 stage. That 22 lb difference incoming is only varying 2 lbs out. Call Apollo for a recommendation or Watts.

 

[Reach4]

Most people with wells do not have pressure reducing valves.

I wonder if a Dole valve would be suitable for limiting the flow rate.

 

[RonL1]

Most people with wells do not have pressure reducing valves.

I wonder if a Dole valve would be suitable for limiting the flow rate.

Tried one of those... didn't work...

 

[LLigetfa]

You might want to consider a Cycle Stop Valve if the heat pump can be made to work at the constant pressure the CSV puts out which is normally about half way between cut-in and cut-out. Maybe @Valveman has experience with feeding heat pumps.

 

[RonL1]

You might want to consider a Cycle Stop Valve if the heat pump can be made to work at the constant pressure the CSV puts out which is normally about half way between cut-in and cut-out. Maybe @Valveman has experience with feeding heat pumps.

I'm sure he does, I've actually considered one of those too.
Thanks for the suggestion

 

[Fitter30]

Take a look at this devise. Have used them on larger jobs. Some companies like climate master make hose kits with shut off valves and strainer. Most flow control valves for water source hp are variable pressure that at have a spring orifice that moves to regulate.flow.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Caleffi-127359AF4G5-3-4-Sweat-FlowCal-Automatic-Flow-Balancing-Valve-4-5-GPM?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=Shopping_withoutdata&utm_campaign=Shopping_Without_PLTV_data&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_473dC_uhkROEb1qRqf4RoPiGfQTkww2jptcPCar_Mu87t434z-cf8epuxoC150QAvD_BwE

 

[Valveman]

Direct acting pressure reducing valves have what is called reduced pressure falloff. That means the higher the flow rate, the lower the pressure they give. It doesn't have much incoming pressure to work with, which makes the reduced pressure falloff even worse. But what is REALLY bad is that your pump is cycling on and off while the heat pump is running. A CSV works like a pressure regulator, except that it can be installed prior to the pressure tank, which lets it eliminate cycling while holding a constant pressure to the heat pump, showers, or whatever. Installed prior to the pressure tank/pressure switch the CSV can have a much higher inlet pressure, which reduces the amount of reduced pressure falloff.

The CSV1A only has 5 PSI reduced pressure falloff at 10 GPM. Here is the chart.

CSV1A: Specifications – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc

Buy It!

cyclestopvalves.com

The CSV125 and the pilot operated CSV3A do not have reduced pressure falloff. They will hold a constant pressure throughout the range of the flow. But the CSV1A is our most popular and has very little reduced pressure falloff compared to what you are seeing now. PLUS, the CSV will eliminate the pump cycling and make the pump. pressure tank, switch, check valve and everything else in the pump system last longer while it is delivering strong constant pressure to the house and/or heat pump.

 

[RonL1]

This is interesting and could work for me. I currently don't have a cycling problem though. My well will only turn on once during a heat pump run. Not that that could change in the future. If I remember, the csv will allow the pump to turn on and then then run up to a set pressure point and stay there running at that point u til the demand ends, and then allow the pressure to build back to the wells shutoff point.

 

[Valveman]

Sounds like your heat pump is oversized and not running very long with each cycle. In cases like that the well pump will come on or cycle every time the heat pump comes on. My heat pump will run for 10-20 minutes or longer when it comes on, but the well pump never cycles no matter how long the heat pump is running. But with an oversized heat pump and a large pressure tank, the pump may not cycle at all for one heat pump cycle. This can make the pressure to the heat pump even worse, as the pressure will drop from 60 all the way to 38 PSI when the heat pump comes on. Using a small pressure tank with a CSV would solve this problem. With a CSV the small tank would be empty quickly and the pump would be on. Then the CSV can hold a constant 50 PSI to the heat pump, no matter if it is only on for a few minutes or runs 24/7 to keep up.

 

[RonL1]

My priorities may not be in the correct place, but I'm doing my best to conserve water from the well, and keep low operating cost. Currently using the 4.5 gpm for 6-8 minutes per cycle , with 700 air speed from my registers, drawing roughly 10 amps. It's keeping the house at 45 % humidity, and costs me 280/year to run. I can run as is with a varying flow between 4-6 gpm, but I'm just wasting water, so that's why my attempt at using a reducing valve.
I believe your method will work and deserves consideration, but will require some amount of cash and labor outflow, and may make the pump run longer . I believe it may reduce the cost of running the pump, but for a longer period which may cancel itself out. Definatly a consideration. Thank you !