Should the big 3 auto-makers be bailed out?

[Dunbar Plumbing]

When the automakers went to the table,


they didn't even cut any executive salaries/bonuses or trim the excess at the top.


The top 3 have been losing ground for years.....and truth be known?


The MAJORITY if they could afford it, would buy a toyota or honda, nissan or any I missed that literally run forever.


Someone's signature line reads:


"If Honda made humans, we'd never die."


It's really hard to kill a honda or toyota...they last forever and their product lines involving generators for honda or other machine equipment is taken in high regard as quality.

I own nothing but ford and chevy but my eyes are turning to a Toyota full sized truck on my next buy. I know someone that owns one and talk about tough.


Discuss, or throw knives and stones...

 

[Redwood]

I'm hoping that Toyota hits our market with a full size work van before I have to get another one.

This last Jimmy has been the biggest POS I've ever owned.
It's been on the hook more than any other vehicle I have ever owned in my whole life.

Once again as the US companies outsource the jobs south of the border to take advantage of that cheap labor pool quality suffers, reputations die, and Japanese companies build profitable production facilities in the US...

Go figure!

Seems to be a trend going on here...

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Tis true.


My older box van is a more comfortable ride than my ford F-350. Both are one tons.


Both had major motor work this year....for strange but obvious reasons.

 

[Cookie]

Not on your life. Let them bail theirselves out.

 

[Maddog]

Have the UAW bail them out - they are the major reason why the US auto manufacturers can't compete.... the bloated labor cost per car ensures they will lose money.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

http://www.wlwt.com/money/17996817/detail.html




Doesn't seem to be hurting Honda one bit.



Jobs jobs jobs.



Build a good product and job security will always be there.


.

 

[Redwood]

Totota neither...
http://www.toyota.com/about/our_business/operations/manufacturing/

 

[MaintenanceGuy]

It's time for the dinosaurs to die.

They'll never be viable saddled with their legacy and union costs.

Letting them fail will be hard for a lot of people in the short term but new industries will open up to fill the void. In the long term, we're all better off without them.

But...they spent a lot of money on political campaigns. If you can't get something for contributing, businesses will stop contributing so our politicians will bail them out. It's in their own best interest.

 

[Alternety]

NO. But I think the government should pay me for everything my retirement investments have lost because of their incredibly stupid oversight and collusion with greedy, remorseless, high level criminals, short sellers, commodity traders, etc. (AKA Senior Management).

 

[Redwood]

NO. But I think the government should pay me for everything my retirement investments have lost because of their incredibly stupid oversight and collusion with greedy, remorseless, high level criminals, short sellers, commodity traders, etc. (AKA Senior Management).

I'll agree with that!

 

[Redwoodvotesoften1]

Welp If I paid any taxes on the corn licker I make I'd be concerned about bailing these companies out. But, I don't pay any taxes.

My only concern is for my customers. I'd like to see them have more money to buy more corn licker.

 

[D.Smith]

If the big 3 would bring back the jobs spent oversees then I can see some type of loan to help them but as I see it they made their bed when the said screw you and move all the jobs oversees. Have China bail them out.

As far as them making junk I have a 2002 E350 pushing 140k, 94 Ford bronco also at 150k neither needing major work. I run my trucks hard and they wont die. I just sold my 98 gmc with 220k with only issue is the fuel pump. Never got more than 70k on a fuel pump. Now my 01 Caravan only has 100k and this year alone I have dropped 2.5k in repairs. I dont see it lasting another 100k.

 

[Redwood]

My Jimmy has had the following replaced...
Fuel pump, Transmission, & Engine, All before 200K!
I consider it to be a lemon!

I treat my vehicles right too!
As a comparison I bought a 69 chevy van in 1980 with at least 230K on it and I drove it an additional 550K on top of the 230K so that might be a comparison for how I treat a vehicle.

I also have a Toyota Camry with 230K on it with only routine maint. done on it.

 

[Cookie]

I read where they are begging this morning for the bail out.
Wow. Some class. I wouldn't give them a red cent. If I were in charge of this I would make them give everyone who bought a car from them in the last 10 years, 3000 grand back and also, gift cetificates for the Olive Garden.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081118/ap_on_bi_ge/congress_autos;_ylt=AhKWYVq1HO33bMtWnE7rbNil24cA

It kind of reminds me of a conversation with the boys growing up:
Kid: "Why can't I have 50,000 bucks?"
Mom: " Because I already gave you money, THAT's why, quit yer beggin."
Kid: " I hate you, I hate you, (while stamping his feet)."
Mom: " Good, I am doing my job right."

Congress needs to know, the word: NO
Treat em like the kids they are. Thankfully, mine was a lot younger and now grown up, and I beg them for money. (In fairness to my kids, they held jobs since they were old enough to know what money was, I got worker bees...) They are great kids and I proud of them.

 

[Cass]

NO...No bail out $$$...

I just parked my E 150 for the last time with 345K on it. Original engine and trans.

I am sold on synthetic oil...Royal Purple or Mobile 1 Extended Mileage and Lucas pure synthetic additive added at a ratio of 1 plus 4 qts.oil or 20%. This will get me 10-12K before I change the oil again...the oil will be dirty but will not have broken down. I also change the filter every 5-6K and I use good filters.

If the engine does not have any problems this will greatly extend the life of the engine. When I started using the Lucas Pure Synthetic I noticed the oil staying cleaner much longer...

The other thing I have started using and like is Autolite double platinum Spark Plugs and Bosh wires...it gives you the hottest spark for better combustion and the Platinum will give long plug life.

The wires are important...I ohmed a new set of Auto Zones Lifetime and they ohmed in at 10-11 the bosh ohmed at 3-4...the old ones I was taking out which were the original wires with 95K on them ohmed at 7-8 ...

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Henry Paulson just mentioned this morning,



"Look, were not going to bail out plumbing contractors in this matter, along with others who are lining up to take advantage of this money."



Great,

We're getting used like a pawn again for political rhetoric, bastards!


The way it sounds, they seem pretty sure they are NOT going to lend them money.

Time to go BUH-BYE.


$67/hour per worker is an extreme number to build a car, don't ya think?

And they can't make money in building vehicles with the idea of flex fuels.

That just minimizes that margin even greater.

I've had good luck with Ford and Chevy, never owned a Dodge but there's a competitor that builds vehicles that last twice as long without major nickel and diming along the way.

It's time to pay the piper.....tnose people will find jobs just like all the others did when other automobile companies went under in years past.

 

[Cass]

I say we all on this board start an auto company and see if we can get some of the bail out $$$...we can build cars that run on wind energy

here is my next work vehicle prototype

when we make our millions then we can spread the wealth around and then when we are broke go back for another hand out.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

no bail out for anyone would have been best

Their is a stink going on right now in Washington about
how the federal reserve wont divulge the names of
everyone in the financial world that got bailed out...

They refuse to tell the news papers how many bernsteins,
weinstings, goldbergs, rotternbergs, goldsteins,
and others put their hand out and got millions of dollars for a bail out.


they are all embarrassed to be caught with their hands
in this political cookie jar. they dont want to show how much
the federal reserve gave away to political cronies and people in favor........

they should have let them all fail and have been done with it..




Now as far as the BIG 3..... its going to be a mess..

this will be the death of the unions, and the death of a lifestyle that has been going on since WWll....

they certainly dont deserve what they all make from the very top to the bottom and when it fails it is going to drag
the whole country into a deep depression..

When a country gets the mentality that they are too good or too lazy to work for less than 10 bucks an hour and they give all their jobs away to Mexico and China,

and then open the borders to anyone who will come up here and do all the nasty jobs that neither the blacks or whites will do. anymore........then you got troubles.......

Everyone from the top too the bottom wanted to be paid like kings for doing menial... mostly mindless jobs at all these factories, and the unions fought for those higher wages... 67 per hour... .

The unions fought for all of this and now they have basically killed the goose that laid the golden egg...

Everryone has lived like kings for a long time and got fat and lazy, living in houses larger than they can afford, ect ect////

I thik its called the American Dream??

now that the Goose that laid the golden eggs is dieing right before our very eyes, ,

I really fear that we are all going to have to learn how to
live like peasents for a decade or so till we finally come to our senses... and back down to earth...

In 2000 I had had employees walk out my door screaming calling me a dirty S.o.b for 25 per hour plus full medicle benefits for his family (650 per month) , plus a truck to drive and he refused to more than 40 hrs per week...

how the screw has turned.....

at a supply house downtown, a plumbinc company paid their over due bill with a plumbing truck that they are going to raffle off this week.....10 dollars per ticket..

that company got ate up with high salaries, medical packages, trucks, and no more work comming in...


enough ranting and raveing.........,

I got to go out and do some of the dirty work today...

Install 1 water heater, cut open a ceiling and find a leak,

winterize two houses......

plus whatever else comes in on my phone today...

I am blessed for now that our phone still rings and we
ahve plenty to keep things moveing.....

Enjoy it while you can fellas,

cause the phone will
probably stop ringing someday when the bottom falls out for everybody.....

....






...

 

[hj]

bailout

They didn't even blink when they were asked to bailout the financial market which has been stealing money for years and then cried for help when they got caught. Now we hear that half the 750 billion dollars has been "donated" and the only ones who have benefited so far have been the banks, not the consumers. If you think the auto industry will still fail if given an infusion, what do you think will happen once the financial industry has stolen the 750 billion, and needs a new loan? At least the auto industry is producing a usable product. You do realize, I hope, that if the auto industry fails, the pensioners will not lose their benefits. The government, meaning you and me, will probably have to assume the cost.

 

[Jimbo]

Sunday's paper had an article about the 10 cars that killed Detroit. You can find the article with a google so I won't copy it here. But there are no surprises, and anyone outside the industry could have told you the story last year...and 10 years ago....and 30 years ago.

The article also mentioned the 10 cars that could save Detroit....if they got their head out of their ass, which they won't.