Should I Replace Old American Standard 4049, 1970's Toilet?

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MayDay321

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Hi everyone!

I'm in dire need of help and guidance as I do not know where to start. We have two American Standard toilets (model 4049-51) in the house and the upstairs one is partially blocked. I don't know what is stuck down there but it is not budging. After some plunging it will flush, but slowly and not completely. It seems to get better after plunging but then later it reclogs and we have to plunge again. I tried all of the unclogging remedies (hot water and soap, plunger, auger, DIY coat hanger auger). I think it is a wash down type toilet? There are two holes in the toilet, one smaller and one bigger. I know the bigger hole is the one I use the auger on, but once I put the auger in, it goes upwards and then it cannot get past the bend. The "coat hanger" auger actually hooked onto the bend and got stuck for a while but I could not get it down to the blockage.

My question is, are there any other unclogging techniques/liquids to get the clog out or should I just give up and replace the whole thing? It's quite an old toilet and has 4 bolts holding it down on the floor. Newer models only have 2 bolts so I don't even know what to do with the extra ones I have. From the wall to the back sets of bolts is about 11" and from there it's another 6" to the front bolts. I've researched around and heard that replacing one of these older toilets can also be quite a challenge because you might not know what you will find when you lift the toilet up. Something about a different flange for older models? What type of toilet do I buy? I suppose those DIY instructions on replacing a toilet might not apply to me in this case.

I consider myself a pretty handy gal, but I've never tried my hands on plumbing before. I'm trying to cut back on expenses as I'm unemployed right now so I want to see if I can get this done myself. But if this really is a job required for a Plumber then I don't want to risk it. Any type of help/suggestions would be much appreciated. Thank you!

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You have to pull the toilet and snake thru the flange.

Once you pull the toilet, you can easily see if there is blockage with the toilet, or somewhere deep in the flange, which is more likely.

A change in toilet will not fix your clog woes.

I have a 1950's Eljer and I love it, but everyone their own.
 

Reach4

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If you want to consider replacing the toilet, note that the rough in would be the distance from the center of the front bolts to the wall.

I have a friend with a toilet that clogged a lot. He very recently put a snake in to the plumbing trapway. Pushing did not clear things. He twisted, and was able to screw into a plastic item that had fallen in from atop the tank. The obstruction was hidden in the toilet rather than down below the floor. The end of the snake was like a corkscrew. He was able to pull the obstruction out. Toilet works well now.

A toilet auger would have been the right tool, but he bought something much longer.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-to-use-a-closet-auger-on-a-plugged-toilet.18133/

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MayDay321

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If you want to consider replacing the toilet, note that the rough in would be the distance from the center of the front bolts to the wall.

I have a friend with a toilet that clogged a lot. He very recently put a snake in to the plumbing trapway. Pushing did not clear things. He twisted, and was able to screw into a plastic item that had fallen in from atop the tank. The obstruction was hidden in the toilet rather than down below the floor. The end of the snake was like a corkscrew. He was able to pull the obstruction out. Toilet works well now.

A toilet auger would have been the right tool, but he bought something much longer.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-to-use-a-closet-auger-on-a-plugged-toilet.18133/

ac11602b-938d-406c-9915-d7d87219ee59_400.jpg
Yep, that looks exactly like the auger I bought. It cannot get down the trap. I can get it all the way up but it won't bend downwards no matter how hard I try. All I get is metal scraping my toilet once I get to that point.

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Reach4

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I would go to a new toilet. It will have a smooth trapway and be less prone to clogging event though it uses less water. Another nice things about new toilets is because of the reduced water use, they are not going to overflow on a single flush, even if there was a clog.

corrected: Measure your rough in to the middle of the front rear bolts.

It may be that you would need a toilet that will cover the area of the floor covered by the current toilet base. The floor covered by the current toilet may be in good shape and going to the bigger footprint will not be required. You would have to pull the toilet to be sure.

Or you could pull the toilet. If you find that toy soldier in your toilet bottom, you could reuse the old or get new.
 
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Terry

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We often have to pull the bowls, and work from the bottom side, pushing whatever is there out. It may be that whatever is in there will never pass through.

11" to the wall or the floor molding? Most standard 12" rough bowls measure from the wall above the floor mold. It's the tank that needs to clear.
 

MayDay321

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We often have to pull the bowls, and work from the bottom side, pushing whatever is there out. It may be that whatever is in there will never pass through.

11" to the wall or the floor molding? Most standard 12" rough bowls measure from the wall above the floor mold. It's the tank that needs to clear.
Right, I didn't even know there was molding back there. I measured again but it wasn't 12" to the middle of the bolt. The tank still is about 1/2" away from the wall though. I fear there will be a lot of issues once I take the toilet out and try to replace it. Do you think it's worth a shot to take it out, try and clear the clog from the bottom myself?

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@Reach4 I measure from the front bolts to the wall for the rough in? I thought The rough in measurement was from the back bolts to the wall? If I measure from the front then it'll be 17.5" in the bolt centre. That doesn't seem like a standard rough in measurement?
 
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Terry

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If the toilet is plugged, I don't see many options.
A new toilet that fits at 11" would be a TOTO Drake CST743 or CST744
Normally the rough-in is centered on the bolts closest to the wall.
 

Reach4

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Normally the rough-in is centered on the bolts closest to the wall.
Guess I got that backwards. Sorry.

I used a 12 inch Unifit adapter for a a little over 13 inch rough. I could have used the 14 I had expected to use, but figured that I could sell the 14, and a leftover 12 has very little value (12 inch comes with the toilet). My install is non-standard, but functional. It all hides under the toilet.

Click Inbox above.
 

Jadnashua

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A 1970's toilet almost certainly uses at least 3.5g and could use a lot more to flush. A side benefit to lower water use is that the tank is less likely to sweat when the humidity is higher since it doesn't flush all of the (normally) room-temperature water in the tank, so what's left will warm the replacement cold water up and prevent the sweating. If you pay for water and sewer, that's thousands of gallons per person per year in savings. Even if you have your own well, it costs in electricity to pump that water.
 

MayDay321

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I'm gonna give it sometime. If it doesn't get better then I'm going to take it out and have a look myself. Last resort will be to call a plumber to have the toilet replaced (or do it myself), but there's no harm in trying to take a look myself first. Thanks for the advice everyone!
 
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