Shared well pump, we are paying fully

[Jklei172]

We rent a house on a farm. The house is connected to a well that is about 30 feet from our house. We can see where the pipe goes underground from a sunken area over the pipe. The well pump is in our house and controlled by our breaker box. The well pump is also brand new. When we first moved in our lease stated that the well pump also powers the barn. Our first electric bill for a full month was 400kwh. No sweat.

Then our landlord added an apartment to the end of the barn for his other daughter, her boyfriend and their two kids to live in. Our September bill jumped by 200kwh. He acknowledged that an additional family would use the well pump further and cut our rent by $25. October was 900kwh. November was 1,900kwh!!!! Even though we keep our heat at 60 and only heat one room with a portable radiator. December has done us in at 2,500kwh. Our well pump is constantly running. The barn is at least 100 feet from our house. The apartment was not inspected or permitted in any way.

I have a massive bill and we are freezing trying to save pennies. Could there be a leak? Could the problem be a second household working off our pump? Any suggestions or ideas are welcome as our landlord is basically saying that our bill should be this high from heating. Our electric company says it shouldn't be anywhere near this high. We can't continue to live here if the bill isn't reduced significantly. The well pump is cycling constantly, especially when we hear the water running through the pipes. Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

Yes, there could be a leak. You probably want to pass your info to the landlord.

When you say "well pump is constantly running" are you being literal or figurative?

What does the water pressure gauge say?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jklei172]

It is always on, shifting slowly from 40psi up to 60psi and then dropping off again. In an hour it cycles about 6 times. If we hear the water running in the pipes it cycles even more. It went through 3 cycles in seven minutes when I heard water running in the pipes.

We did let our landlord know, he doesn't care and said if there was a leak our water would come out dirty. We don't know what to do at this point. Our electric company had us check the meter and then turn off all our electric but the pump and the pump is pulling at least 1kw each hour.

 

[Jklei172]

Oh and also when the temps are freezing it cycles less (more like 2-3 times in an hour).

 

[Reach4]

It is always on, shifting slowly from 40psi up to 60psi and then dropping off again. In an hour it cycles about 6 times. If we hear the water running in the pipes it cycles even more. It went through 3 cycles in seven minutes when I heard water running in the pipes.

We did let our landlord know, he doesn't care and said if there was a leak our water would come out dirty. We don't know what to do at this point. Our electric company had us check the meter and then turn off all our electric but the pump and the pump is pulling at least 1kw each hour.

Guess you are not eager to move, but if you wanted out of your lease, it would seem to me that you have grounds. Maybe the landlord would welcome the availability of the house for his daughter and is trying to get you to leave.

If the pump goes through on-off cycles, it is not constantly running. But if the gauge is always going either up or down, it would indicate that water is running constantly, which could be due to a leak. Is there a valve that would turn off the water to the barn? That would be useful in troubleshooting.

I have no advice as to how to take this to the authorities.

 

[Texas Wellman]

The average family uses between 300-500 gallons of water per day. If the well is supplying 3 families that is about 1500 gpd. If the avg well pump produces 10 GPM it would need to run 2.5 hours per day. The avg 1 HP pump consumes about 1600 watts of electricity, or 1.6 kWh for every hour it runs. Electricity costs about $.12 per kWh. Every day your pump runs for 2.5 hours it costs a whopping $.48 worth of electricity.

Which adds up to about $15 a month.

 

[Valveman]

Yeah it would take a 1.5HP pump running 24/7 (no cycling on/off) to use that much energy. I would turn the power off to the pump for a night and see if the daughters apartment goes black.

 

[Reach4]

I would turn the power off to the pump for a night and see if the daughters apartment goes black.

Great idea! Does the barn even have an electric meter, and if so, does the disk spin?

Jklei172, how many minutes/seconds is the pump on and how many minutes/seconds is the pump off during each cycle?

Can you turn off the water to the barn temporarily as a test, and monitor the pump cycles-- ideally when the daughter is away?

 

[LLigetfa]

When we first moved in our lease stated that the well pump also powers the barn...

A pump does not make electricity so it cannot power a barn. Reread the lease. The pump can supply water to the barn. The breaker that the pump is on could possibly supply power to the barn. What size is the breaker?

 

[Reach4]

A pump does not make electricity so it cannot power a barn. Reread the lease. The pump can supply water to the barn. The breaker that the pump is on could possibly supply power to the barn. What size is the breaker?

We were wondering if there were maybe wires running to the barn. Maybe that is too paranoid. We don't have a good idea of the duty cycle of the pump.

A 1300 watt heater running 100% of the time for 30 days would be 936 kWh.

 

[Jklei172]

The barn does have its own meter. The pump (I hope) is the only thing we power for the barn. We have turned off all the breakers except the well pump and our meter went up 1kwh. Possible that we are supplying their hot water as well?

I can turn off the water to the barn via a valve. I can test the usage then as well.

They are convinced nothing is wrong and we just need to pay the massive bill. Oddly enough after we complained our usage went down by about 10kwh a day. I'm suspicious they had a hose left on or something.

Guy game out today to test that the well pump was working properly and I stated that the pump is not the problem, he agreed there could be a leak but the landlords are just dismissing that entirely.

The breaker for the well pump is two 20's I believe. I can double check that.

Thanks for all the input. Don't really have means to move again right now, but it is looking inevitable. We simply can not pay a higher bill.

 

[Valveman]

A leak would not cause an electric bill that high. If the pump is using that much energy there should be 20,000 gallons per day going somewhere.

 

[Reach4]

Guy game out today to test that the well pump was working properly and I stated that the pump is not the problem, he agreed there could be a leak but the landlords are just dismissing that entirely.

Do you feel sure there is not a hole in the drop pipe, or the one-way valve in the foot valve had not failed, or that the pump itself had somehow gotten much less efficient? Did the well person see that the pressure held when there was no water being used?

Yes, an open hose could have finally been turned off.

Jklei172, how many minutes/seconds is the pump on and how many minutes/seconds is the pump off during each cycle? I guess those times have changed considerably, but what are the before and after times would you estimate?

 

[Jklei172]

The more we deal with the issue and continue to track our power usage the more we think they are a bunch of liars and trying to hide the fact that we have been paying for their excessive water usage for six months now. Suddenly our daily for the past two days has dropped by 20+kWh and we are not hearing the pump cycle nearly as often.

Plus the guy they had out came free of charge and only checked that the well pump was functioning. They refuse to have anyone out to check for leaks anywhere in the system.

We want to put in a power meter monitor the usage on only the pump. Any suggestions or recommendations? It doesn't appear to have a plug so we need to put a meter in the power line.

Thanks everyone. We are still not sure there isn't a leak in the pipe from pump to barn. When we hear their water kick on it drains very quickly (I do not know what they are using I.e. a faucet or a shower or a hose) but it goes from 60-40 in about six seconds. Then the pump clicks on and it takes about a minute to go from 40-60. When we run our water it drains considerably slower takes about a minute to drop and a minute to come back up wit the shower on, more like five minutes to drop from a faucet. I have no idea what normal is.

Thanks again everyone. Our electric bill from last month is almost exactly 950 kWh over what the electric company says we could have used.

Will not be renewing our lease in July.

 

[Jklei172]

Oh and when the well pumps us to 60 and then you can't hear any water flowing anywhere, it loses pressure very slowly. Takes about 40 minutes to lose pressure and then it ticks on again. I can't be sure there isn't a faucet or hose with a slow drip in the barn or barn apartment either. Honestly we don't trust their word at this point either, since its becoming clear that they have been leaving something on for months now and just letting us pay for it.

 

[Reach4]

We want to put in a power meter monitor the usage on only the pump. Any suggestions or recommendations? It doesn't appear to have a plug so we need to put a meter in the power line.

That is feasible with some wiring. Search for watt hour meter -- maybe on an auction site. However if you are leaving, that would less important. If you would like out of your lease early, the landlord might be cooperative even without you having to involve anybody else. Many landlords will let a longer term tenant out for various purposes, such as buying a house etc. qcMvB_k-hds is a low quality Youtube video.

For plug-in devices, there are plug-in power use monitors. One popular brand is Kill-A-Watt. This could be informative in line with your electric heater.

 

[Texas Wellman]

Sounds like the check valve in the well is leaking back. Close the outlet valve at the discharge of the tank and see if the pressure holds or drops. If it drops the check valve should be replaced.

 

[Jklei172]

They won't let us out of the lease. Its not a problem with the actual holding tank. Water is being uses or going out somewhere. We do want to get a meter and install it. How do I know if its 220 or 115? Most meters that I'm finding for in line are 220. Want to make sure I get the right thing since loose money isn't something we have with these massive bills. Thanks again y'all!

 

[Reach4]

They won't let us out of the lease. Its not a problem with the actual holding tank. Water is being uses or going out somewhere. We do want to get a meter and install it. How do I know if its 220 or 115? Most meters that I'm finding for in line are 220. Want to make sure I get the right thing since loose money isn't something we have with these massive bills. Thanks again y'all!

Since you asked the landlord, we can eliminate the theory that the landlord was trying to drive you out.

An AC voltmeter across the supply wires would tell you the voltage-- 240v or 120 give or take. Another way would be to look at the nameplate on the pump motor for the voltage or at least the model number. It seems most likely that the pump is 220-24oV, but you are right to check.

 

[paigefaith]

The average family uses between 300-500 gallons of water per day. If the well is supplying 3 families that is about 1500 gpd. If the avg well pump produces 10 GPM it would need to run 2.5 hours per day. The avg 1 HP pump consumes about 1600 watts of electricity, or 1.6 kWh for every hour it runs. Electricity costs about $.12 per kWh. Every day your pump runs for 2.5 hours it costs a whopping $.48 worth of electricity.

Which adds up to about $15 a month.

Would that be for each family or around a total for the month for electricity?