Shallow well to deep well with water table drop

[Alfred in El Paso]

Greetings from El Paso. I have had a shallow well setup strictly for watering my yard and trees on a large lot in Socorro Texas for years in the valley. Several months ago started having trouble and burned up a good sears convertible jet pump. Water table has dropped to 23 - 24'. I blew mud out of the well with compressor but the level is right at 24' at best. The well depth is 38' and so there is maybe 14' of water. The other problem is the well is 2 1/2" casing evidently not used in years.
Was suggested a deep well jet pump with packer but I can only find it at 2" (in fact I ordered a Dayton ejector pkg 2" single pipe from Grainger which I will return). I thought I could put 2" pvc in the 2 1/2" casing but there is not enough room for connector joints.
Can't find any submersible pumps that will fit in the 2 1/2" casing nor packer assembly for 2 1/2" either. Might it be possible to run a two pipe system 1 1/4" and 3/4" with adapter for the casing if such a casing adapter exists? Any other ideas or referral to well supplier is greatly appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

There was a prior thread where a suggestion was made: https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/can-a-2-1-2-packer-jet-be-purchased-anywhere.48515/ There was no follow-up info. I have no idea where you would special order the leathers.

http://www.aandapumphousesupply.com/jetpumpaccessories lists a "2 1/2 inch 2 Inch Brass Packer Jet". I have no further knowledge, but maybe that is something that would do the job. I am not a pro, and I have never seen a well packer.

I expect you will do a follow-up post if you have success.

More thoughts... how far down you can suck water with a shallow well pump varies with barometric pressure. A pipe that is 35 ft long won't let you pump from that deep, but it will keep you from losing prime. Also, you could power your pump via a device that detects when you are out of water, and will shut down the pump for a while.

Also, is your pump as low as it can go? If your pump is on a 3 ft platform, dropping the shallow pump and the highest suction pipe down by 2.5 ft would let you pump from 2.5 feet deeper.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Boycedrilling]

Here's a thought. Buy some flush thread 2" monitoring well PVC pipe. It has no outside bells. It has an acme type thread. Male threads on one end, female threads on the other end. Same size ID and OD in the joints, same as the pipe itself. It is available in sch 40 and sch 80.

You may have to buy it thru a well driller or pump installer. I keep 1", 1 1/4" and 2" in stock. Most contractors don't though. I use the 1" and 1 1/4" for sounding tubes on some pump installations. I use the 2" for monitoring wells.

 

[Valveman]

I use the 1" and 1 1/4" for sounding tubes on some pump installations. I use the 2" for monitoring wells.

Sounds like a good idea Boyce. What is a sounding tube?

 

[Boycedrilling]

On some pump installations we might want a more accurate way to measure the water level than an airline. I will install 1" or 1 1/4" PVC with a slotted bottom to lower a transducer or e-line. I don't know how many E-lines I have pulled the probe tip off when it got stuck in between the column pipe and the well. I refuse to install a transducer in a well unless it is inside of the sounding tube. Most transducers are not field repairable, and are a $1,000+ for a 300 ft line with transducer.

All my test pumps get installed with either one or two sounding tubes. Often times a consulting engineer will have a portable transducer he wants to install while we are test lumping the well.

 

[Texas Wellman]

Boyce, I thought i was the only one who ever lined 2.5" pipe with 2" FJ. I did it one time years ago. It may have been 3".

You can no longer buy either a 2.5" jet or a 2.5" casing adapter, and if you find some let me know. I would like to buy any remaining stock for the handful of wells around here that use it. I was told years ago that most of the 2.5" wells were drilled during WWII as the regular pipe was hard to get. I have also been told that they used 2.5" for windmills so a 2" cylinder would fit down the hole.

You don't need a 2.5" jet, you can use a regular 2" jet with over-size leathers (2.5" OD leathers by 1" or 1.25" ID, can't remember the exact size and it varies from jet to jet). I have a picture somewhere (https://terrylove.com/forums/data/attachments/14/14063-f44b5404e883dc5dc01af5bdaa0c9e28.jpg) showing the 2" jet with oversize leathers I can dig up. You may even put a large SS washer behind the leathers to give them more strength but I did not and they are working 5 years later.

You can still buy a deep well 3" casing adapter (Goulds AWD3). You can buy a bell adapter and coupling, thread the top of the 2.5" and increase the casing diameter from 2.5" to 3" and then install the casing adapter.

When you blew the well how much water did it make? Make sure it makes water before you go chasing hard to find and expensive parts.

 

[Valveman]

On some pump installations we might want a more accurate way to measure the water level than an airline. I will install 1" or 1 1/4" PVC with a slotted bottom to lower a transducer or e-line. I don't know how many E-lines I have pulled the probe tip off when it got stuck in between the column pipe and the well. I refuse to install a transducer in a well unless it is inside of the sounding tube. Most transducers are not field repairable, and are a $1,000+ for a 300 ft line with transducer.

All my test pumps get installed with either one or two sounding tubes. Often times a consulting engineer will have a portable transducer he wants to install while we are test lumping the well.

Thanks Boyce. I have done that before, I just didn't know what it was called. I use to run a pipe down even for the old style well sounder when I could. I also have lost several of those lines when they get tangled in the drop wire and pipe.

I aslo do the same thing for a probe or float switch in a lake or tank. I always just called them a "stilling well", as they were made to "still' the water so it wouldn't bounce the float from the wave action in the tank or lake.

 

[Boycedrilling]

Yes that how I like floats installed in a reservoir or larger body of water that can have some turbulence or wave action. I call them stilling tubes, even though they might be 12" in diameter.

 

[Alfred in El Paso]

There was a prior thread where a suggestion was made: https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/can-a-2-1-2-packer-jet-be-purchased-anywhere.48515/ There was no follow-up info. I have no idea where you would special order the leathers.

http://www.aandapumphousesupply.com/jetpumpaccessories lists a "2 1/2 inch 2 Inch Brass Packer Jet". I have no further knowledge, but maybe that is something that would do the job. I am not a pro, and I have never seen a well packer.

I expect you will do a follow-up post if you have success.

More thoughts... how far down you can suck water with a shallow well pump varies with barometric pressure. A pipe that is 35 ft long won't let you pump from that deep, but it will keep you from losing prime. Also, you could power your pump via a device that detects when you are out of water, and will shut down the pump for a while.

Also, is your pump as low as it can go? If your pump is on a 3 ft platform, dropping the shallow pump and the highest suction pipe down by 2.5 ft would let you pump from 2.5 feet deeper.

Thanks for the info. I will check out the supplier.
Yes, local suppliers also suggested I dig a pit to get the pump lower. Thanks again.

 

[Alfred in El Paso]

Here's a thought. Buy some flush thread 2" monitoring well PVC pipe. It has no outside bells. It has an acme type thread. Male threads on one end, female threads on the other end. Same size ID and OD in the joints, same as the pipe itself. It is available in sch 40 and sch 80.

You may have to buy it thru a well driller or pump installer. I keep 1", 1 1/4" and 2" in stock. Most contractors don't though. I use the 1" and 1 1/4" for sounding tubes on some pump installations. I use the 2" for monitoring wells.

Thanks so much. If I can find the piping locally that "seamless concept" is what I was envisioning! I would buy both 2" for the liner and 1 1/4 for the single pipe; so it would all be seamless. Would you put a screen on the 2" or just let it sit on top of the 2 1/2 " screen? Thanks again for your reply.

 

[Boycedrilling]

You can buy the 2" flush joint PVC as screened pipe also. I can't remember the exact slot size, I think it is .010"