Shallow well submersible to replace Jet pump?

[islander1061]

Long time lurker, first time posting...
I've got a shallow well on the beach that goes down about 12 feet, consistent water level around 3 feet. Currently I have a check valve and sandpoint in the well, with 30ft of line with about a 20 foot rise going to a 1/2 hp Meyers jet pump. I had to run a new line recently and unfortunately there is no way to run it without having a high point in the line. All last season the pump was kicking on/off multiple times before shutting off and holding pressure. Assuming the high point is holding some bubbles, leaching some air into the pump every time it kicks on.

My question is, can I remove a jet pump and just run a submersible into the shallow well? My thoughts are, this would eliminate the need for priming at the beginning of the season, as well as fix the issue of having a high point in the line, given the water would be being pushed rather than pulled. I'm sure I am over simplifying this, but I have searched everywhere thinking for sure there has been a discussion about this... but I haven't found it!
Any help is greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance!
-m

 

[Reach4]

My question is, can I remove a jet pump and just run a submersible into the shallow well?

What is the diameter of the well?
Depth: 12 ft
top of the water: 3 ft down.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

As long as the casing is 4" or larger a submersible would be best.

 

[islander1061]

What is the diameter of the well?
Depth: 12 ft
top of the water: 3 ft down.

It's got concrete Crocks that are 3 foot id. I crawl into the well to pull the Sandpoint every other year.

 

[islander1061]

As long as the casing is 4" or larger a submersible would be best.

Casing, as in the width of the well? It's about 3' so its way above the 4".
If I'm able to just put in a submersible, my life just got much easier!

 

[Reach4]

A 1/2 HP 10 gpm pump is usually right for a shallow well. It will pump as well or better than a 1 HP jet pump usually.

You could treat your well as a tank, but you would want to hold the pump above the muck. You would not necessarily need the float switch in series with your pressure switch. The flow inducer sleeve runs the water past the motor to cool the motor better.

You could also have the pump vertical, since you have plenty of water depth. The flow inducer sleeve is still a good idea.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/is-a-flow-inducer-on-4-pump-really-needed-with-large-holding-tank.81907/

 

[LLigetfa]

Why was my post deleted from this thread?

 

[islander1061]

Why was my post deleted from this thread?

I never saw a post from you, ‍♂️. Idk..

 

[LLigetfa]

I never saw a post from you, ‍♂️. Idk..

I'm sure you were not the one that deleted it. Probably valveman did. He's deleted my posts before with no explanation.

Anyway, I had suggested inserting a length of 4 inch casing into the well and shoving the pump down into that casing to hold it in place. No need to get all fancy with floats and stuff.

I doubt your pump short cycling was from air trapped in the line. More likely it was from too much distance between the pressure switch and the pressure tank.

 

[islander1061]

I'm sure you were not the one that deleted it. Probably valveman did. He's deleted my posts before with no explanation.

Anyway, I had suggested inserting a length of 4 inch casing into the well and shoving the pump down into that casing to hold it in place. No need to get all fancy with floats and stuff.

I doubt your pump short cycling was from air trapped in the line. More likely it was from too much distance between the pressure switch and the pressure tank.

My pressure switch is not far from the tank, probably 6" or so.
So if I shoved a 4"casing down there and put the pump in it, it just fills from bottom up? Or should the casing be some sort of permeable material, allowing the water to filter through.
Sand has a tendency to fall in to the well, and there is a nice layer of clay at the very bottom. I use a trash pump and a pressure hose to clear out the gunk every few years.

 

[islander1061]

A 1/2 HP 10 gpm pump is usually right for a shallow well. It will pump as well or better than a 1 HP jet pump usually.

You could treat your well as a tank, but you would want to hold the pump above the muck. You would not necessarily need the float switch in series with your pressure switch. The flow inducer sleeve runs the water past the motor to cool the motor better.

You could also have the pump vertical, since you have plenty of water depth. The flow inducer sleeve is still a good idea.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/is-a-flow-inducer-on-4-pump-really-needed-with-large-holding-tank.81907/

I like the idea of having a shutoff float valve, in case the water drops too low. Currently we kill the breaker every time we leave just as a failsafe.
I am looking for options to keep the sand/ gunk out. Wish there was a way to have the pump pull from the Sandpoint, but from what I've seen the submersibles don't have a suction input option.
I'd like to keep it vertical, I guess horizontal use kills the life of the pump.
I'm thinking a type of screen casing, possibly like a 4" Sandpoint type contraption that the pump could go inside of? Has anyone heard of anything like this? Would this work?

 

[Reach4]

I'm thinking a type of screen casing, possibly like a 4" Sandpoint type contraption that the pump could go inside of? Has anyone heard of anything like this? Would this work?

What is the nature of the stuff you want to exclude? Sand? A vertical flow inducer with a longer tail (extra foot??) will reduce the velocity of the water as the water rises, and sand would tend to not get sucked up.

You could try cleaning the muck and sand from the bottom to make less to suck up.

 

[islander1061]

What is the nature of the stuff you want to exclude? Sand? A vertical flow inducer with a longer tail (extra foot??) will reduce the velocity of the water as the water rises, and sand would tend to not get sucked up.

You could try cleaning the muck and sand from the bottom to make less to suck up.

The well is on a beach with fine sand, and keeping it out is not really possible. On occasion the waves will reach the well and the water pulls the sand and other small debris in. Past the sand is a layer of clay before the bedrock. I clear it out every few years, but as you can imagine it is not a fun process.

 

[LLigetfa]

You could put in crushed stone in gradients, coarsest on the bottom, less coarse in the middle and finer on top. Then put down some (geo-textile) filter cloth with a thin layer of stone over it just to hold it in place. Periodically clean out the sand and debris down to the filter cloth.

Alternately you could put down a 6 inch screened casing and then put a 4 inch flow inducer sleeve over the pump.

 

[Valveman]

I'm sure you were not the one that deleted it. Probably valveman did. He's deleted my posts before with no explanation.

Wasn't me. Playing with the granddaughter this weekend and haven't been keeping up.

 

[Valveman]

If you have the vertical distance cut the flow inducer about 2' longer and let it stick out 2' below the motor. This will keep the sand from getting into th e pump, but you will still have to clean the well occasionally.

 

[Reach4]

For the flow inducer sleeve/shroud could be 4 inch can be schedule 40 PVC or D2729 sewer pipe, as in the pictures. The D2729 is more flexible, so would be easier to attach with the worm gear hose clamps than the heavier schedule 4o.

Solvent weld D2729 sewer pipe: OD 4.215 ID 4.056
Schedule 40: OD 4.500 ID 4.026

 

[LLigetfa]

While I advocate a flow inducer sleeve to insure proper cooling of the motor, using it to keep sediment out is just stop-gap as you will need to pull the pump to clean out what sediment collects at the bottom of it. Better IMHO to keep the sediment out in the first place.

If there is a local well driller that works with slotted casing, then buy a length from him/her. You can make your own but keeping the slot size small requires a very thin kerf saw blade. Cordless circular saws usually have a thinner kerf.

 

[Valveman]

No saw blade is thin enough. You will need a screen or really small perf with really small gravel pack. Probably need .020 or maybe even .010 perf and silica sand type gravel pack.

 

[Reach4]

While I advocate a flow inducer sleeve to insure proper cooling of the motor, using it to keep sediment out is just stop-gap as you will need to pull the pump to clean out what sediment collects at the bottom of it. Better IMHO to keep the sediment out in the first place.

With a 30+ inch diameter well, maybe not. Imagine dropping a submersible sewer effluent pump down on a rope every year or two to suck out sediment. The regular well pump could stay in place during the operation, but could be turned off. A sump pump might do the job cheaper, but an effluent pump would be better at solids I suspect. Oooh, how about a submersible trash pump?