sewer smell in basement bathroom

[AndyH]

I have a split-foyer home that was built in 2001. In the finished side of the basement, we have a bathroom with a toilet, shower, and sink. There is a strong sewer smell that comes from the bathroom at times. I will say that we hardly ever use the bathroom at all. Occasionally when company comes over someone will use the toilet and sink but the shower never gets used. We are on city water and sewer. I do run water and pour bleach in the shower drain at times, to keep it fresh and tha trap full. The sink and shower drain really fast so I don't think it is a vent problem. One thing I think it could be is this. About 6 months after we moved in, I pulled the toilet and peel and stick tiles. I Installed a new ceramic tile floor. When I went to reinstall the toilet, I had problems using a wax wing with a horn. They would not fit in the flange on the floor, The horn would just crinkle up. It is because the toilet flange is smaller than normal. I think it might be a 3.5" flange (not sure though). I ended up using a standard wax ring without a horn. Maybe it didn't seal good and that is where my smell is coming from? I wish I could change the flange out with a bigger one, but it is in a concrete slab. Any advice on the smell and where it could be coming from? Also If I pull the toilet again to check it, what kind of seal should I use?

Thank You,
Andy

 

[Shacko]

Was the flange below the tile floor when you set the toilet?, if so that's probably where the leak is comming from, ( those flanges with the plastic extension are usually a problem) you should use two wax seals.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[AndyH]

The flange was about 1/8" above the finished floor. The main problem I think is they used a spigot flange that goes inside a 3" pipe. That leaves a smaller opening and a regular wax ring with the plastic horn will not fit inside. I went out and bought a 1/2" flange extension and two standard wax rings just incase. I am going to pull the toilet and see what's going on. Why would anybody use a spigot flange that goes inside a 3" pipe like that?

Thanks,
Andy

 

[AndyH]

Ok, I pulled the toilet and I couldn't really tell if it was leaking or not. Also I don't if I really need to add an extension. It may be high enough. Should I use 1 or 2 wax rings? Here's some pics

 

[AndyH]

Well I've left the toilet off for a day now. Ive had a rag stuffed down in the pipe and another towel doubled and covering the whole flange. I can still smell sewage. What do you all think it could be?

 

[Redwood]

That wax ring does not appear to have been leaking. Typically a leaking wax ring is discolored with milky white and black stains.

 

[AndyH]

Ok so I thought maybe the smell was coming from the ceiling so I removed the light/vent fan. It stinks in the ceiling too! Also the vent fan was just venting right in the ceiling. What does this mean? Do you think they just stubbed the vent pipe off in the wall or in the ceiling area? Any ideas?

 

[Cacher_Chick]

If that is the case a plumber could use a smoke machine to determine where the leak is.

 

[AndyH]

found the problem! vented right in the ceiling! What's the best remedy for this? BTW that's and 1 1/2" vent. Is it safe to say that is the vent for the shower and toilet also?

 

[Cacher_Chick]

How to fix it will depend on the layout of the walls in the upper floor. You will need a vent line going from the basement upwards through the roof. If you have an existing vent pipe going through the roof, you may be able to tie into that in the attic instead of holing the roof again.

 

[Dlarrivee]

With any luck you can use a small drill bit to punch through the subfloor from above, where the wall meets the floor just under your base board, and mark out where the bottom plate of a wall above that room is...

 

[Gary Swart]

Regarding the original concerns. The inside fitting flange on a 3" drain could cause a clog someday since the diameter of the drain is constricted too much. However, this would not cause a leak (Which you have determined was not the problem anyway) A single wax ring is all you want when the flange is on top of the finished floor, and you were correct in using the ring without the horn. In cases where 2 rings are needed on a recessed flange, the top ring can be the horned type as it helps keep the two rings aligned. Guess you know now why some folks refer to the vent pipe as a "stink pipe". Glad you found the problem.

 

[AndyH]

The floor above that vent pipe is in a bedroom closet. Could I just run it over to come up right in the corner of the closet and straight up to the attic? This way I wouldn't have to tear drywall off and drill the bottom and top plate. Also is this 1.5" pipe big enough to properly vent this sink, shower, and toilet? I already have 3 vents going through my roof. I believe 1 is a 4" for the upstairs toilets and the other 2 vents are 2". Does it matter which vent I tie into?

 

[Dlarrivee]

The floor above that vent pipe is in a bedroom closet. Could I just run it over to come up right in the corner of the closet and straight up to the attic? This way I wouldn't have to tear drywall off and drill the bottom and top plate. Also is this 1.5" pipe big enough to properly vent this sink, shower, and toilet? I already have 3 vents going through my roof. I believe 1 is a 4" for the upstairs toilets and the other 2 vents are 2". Does it matter which vent I tie into?

You can go up in the corner of the closet if you wish, your choice.

Around here you'd need a 2" vent for a wet vented bathroom group though. You're looking at a lot of work to get there... I would tie into the nearest vent.

 

[Jadnashua]

You need to connect that vent pipe to another one, or run it out the roof on its own. You may need to expand the pipe diameter when going through the roof, as in some places, it can cause frost to build up and close off a smaller pipe.

If you're lucky, you may have a 10-year HOW warranty, and they should fix it for free if the bathroom was there when you bought the place. That certainly doesn't meet code.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

You still need to determine if there are additional unconnected vents for the other fixtures. If there are more, fixing one will not remedy the problem.

 

[AndyH]

I've been checking the other fixtures and it looks like this is the only vent. I can run it up in the attic and tie into a 2" that is going through the roof. Will this one 1.5" vent be big enough?

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Not to meet code for the 3 fixtures, but you still don't know how each of the 3 fixtures are vented. That one pipe might be wet venting one other fixture- or not.

 

[AndyH]

Ok, I did some further investigation. I cut out more drywall from the ceiling in the basment bathroom. Also I went up in the attic.
Here is a pic of a 2" vent going through the roof. You can see a tee that has an 1 1/2" pipe going over to my kitchen sink (vent). Also, the 2" on the bottom of the tee goes straight down to basement.

Ok when I cut out more drywall in bathroom, I found that 2" vent pipe coming down connecting into a tee. The pipe coming off of the right side of the tee, I believe goes over for the drain on my kitchen sink. (I think) The pipe coming off of the left side of the tee just goes over to unfinished part of basement and ties into main waste line.

Here's is a pic of where the 2" ties into the main waste line in garage.

Now, can I just tie my unconnected 1 1/2" into the is 2" in the ceiling of the bathroom? Also it appears that in that first elbow of the 2", that it has been leaking a little? I found some black mold or something on the insulation and drywall that was below it.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

If it is the kitchen sink drain, the vent tie-in would have to be made no less than 6" above the flood rim of the kitchen sink.

I would guess it would probably be easier to run a new line to the attic and tie them together there.