Sewer Gas in Shower
- Thread starter Kim
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Geniescience
Homeowner
save the stick line diagram as a monochrome bitmap
Kim
Open the diagram. Go to file, Save AS. Choose the monochrome. You'll lose color. Fine. This will give you a file less than 50k in size. Attach it. Photos later.
David
Kim
Open the diagram. Go to file, Save AS. Choose the monochrome. You'll lose color. Fine. This will give you a file less than 50k in size. Attach it. Photos later.
David
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Mikey
Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
It sounds like the shower's (and tub's) waste water is causing the shower trap (if any) to siphon dry, while at the same time pressurizing the system downstream, forcing gas out the now-dry trap. This can only happen if there's ineffective (or no) venting downstream from the shower trap. I'm having a hard time imagining how I would construct such a system, but most models involve a missing, misplaced, or failed vent somewhere.
The fact that draining the tub also siphons the shower trap and causes the same problem also strongly suggests there's a missing or plugged vent somewhere. When you drain the tub and get the smell in the shower, does the smell ever stop? Seems it would continue until the shower trap refills.
I would continue to try to contact the previous owners in an effort to find out how long the problem existed, although no previous owner in his right mind would say anything but "Nope, never had such a problem", since the penalties for failing to disclose known defects are severe.
I'd continue checking with the contractor and local permitting agency to find a set of plans, and the local plumbers to see if anyone knows of the problem. See if your camera-guy can construct a diagram of the system based on what his camera sees.
As a temporary measure, or as a last-resort fix, check out:
http://www.trapguard.com/
which is a little flapper device to close off the drain unless water is flowing out. Don't know if it will fit/work in the shower.
The fact that draining the tub also siphons the shower trap and causes the same problem also strongly suggests there's a missing or plugged vent somewhere. When you drain the tub and get the smell in the shower, does the smell ever stop? Seems it would continue until the shower trap refills.
I would continue to try to contact the previous owners in an effort to find out how long the problem existed, although no previous owner in his right mind would say anything but "Nope, never had such a problem", since the penalties for failing to disclose known defects are severe.
I'd continue checking with the contractor and local permitting agency to find a set of plans, and the local plumbers to see if anyone knows of the problem. See if your camera-guy can construct a diagram of the system based on what his camera sees.
As a temporary measure, or as a last-resort fix, check out:
http://www.trapguard.com/
which is a little flapper device to close off the drain unless water is flowing out. Don't know if it will fit/work in the shower.
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Geniescience
Homeowner
i looked into these non-P-traps too.
i looked into these non-P-traps too. All the plumbers i consulted said they still let some odor out. They said they aren't good enough to be considered serious.
Kim, you are still getting new visitors, and the old ones too. Please post your drawing as soon as possible.
David
i looked into these non-P-traps too. All the plumbers i consulted said they still let some odor out. They said they aren't good enough to be considered serious.
Kim, you are still getting new visitors, and the old ones too. Please post your drawing as soon as possible.
David
Mikey
Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
I don't know anything about auto vents, but if it ain't working, it's probably not venting.
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
If I have this right, the AAV should allow air into the drain when draining water. If I'm right, and you didn't notice any movement, then either the pipe to the thing is clogged, or the diaphram is either hard and won't flex to allow air in, or has welded itself to the seat. Course I could be all wet, too.
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
I'm in over my head...one of the pros should be able to answer that...
Geniescience
Homeowner
kim
i saved your bitmap, opened it on my machine, and drew in what you said about the shower and "venting"... Now we have to connect the dots. I don't know what you mean by venting for the shower... and why you didn't show it somehow in the drawing. Please modify my version, below, to help explain.
i saved your bitmap, opened it on my machine, and drew in what you said about the shower and "venting"... Now we have to connect the dots. I don't know what you mean by venting for the shower... and why you didn't show it somehow in the drawing. Please modify my version, below, to help explain.
Kim
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The drawing you added looks like the shower. I'm sure that where you drew the drain that there is a p trap that is under the drain that heads back towards the wall where the vent pipe is also located. The entire inside of the shower is tile, and I do not have a full view of the trap or the vent pipe. (vent pipe is in wall behind shower, drain is in concrete slab).
The lines on your drawing that look like the vent pipe would be behind the wall - the pipe goes up and out of the roof. It is hard to see it from the attic because of the slope of the ceiling, directly above the shower. Over the shower is a decorative ledge ( to put silk plants and junk over). Then there is a box (sheetrocked and textured and painted) that hides the vent pipe to the roof.
The lines on your drawing that look like the vent pipe would be behind the wall - the pipe goes up and out of the roof. It is hard to see it from the attic because of the slope of the ceiling, directly above the shower. Over the shower is a decorative ledge ( to put silk plants and junk over). Then there is a box (sheetrocked and textured and painted) that hides the vent pipe to the roof.
Geniescience
Homeowner
ok, it sounds like you can't see much. Still, let's find out what else is on that line. How far away is the toilet, and the sink? Do you have any evidence suggesting what is being vented and drained on that line?
Kim, have you done the same bubble test in the shower as in the tub?
The only way for a smell to arrive is through air, and the only way for air to arrive is bubbles when the "container" is full. Good to know, good to diagnose.
You might find that the smell is coming out of the tub drain when the shower is running, for instance. To find out whether that is the case, is not easy -- maybe place plastic wrap over the tub drain and have someone observe whether it is getting sucked down or blown up whiel the shower is running.
In any and all cases, the hypothesis most people are running on is that somehow one of your P-traps is getting emptied when the shower is running, and that this is because of inadequate venting, and that improving venting will eliminate the problem. Another hypothesis is that the AAV vent is letting bad air out while the shower is running.
Is the bad air is coming from solely the shower's P-trap?
David
Kim, have you done the same bubble test in the shower as in the tub?
The only way for a smell to arrive is through air, and the only way for air to arrive is bubbles when the "container" is full. Good to know, good to diagnose.
You might find that the smell is coming out of the tub drain when the shower is running, for instance. To find out whether that is the case, is not easy -- maybe place plastic wrap over the tub drain and have someone observe whether it is getting sucked down or blown up whiel the shower is running.
In any and all cases, the hypothesis most people are running on is that somehow one of your P-traps is getting emptied when the shower is running, and that this is because of inadequate venting, and that improving venting will eliminate the problem. Another hypothesis is that the AAV vent is letting bad air out while the shower is running.
Is the bad air is coming from solely the shower's P-trap?
David
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Kim
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I know for sure that the smell is coming solely from the shower drain. The tub, shower, sinks, and toilet make a big diamond. (see diagram)
The plumber is coming back to check the auto vent. He said there are such things as defects. He did previously run a camera down the vents and there were no obstructions. He said the vent 45ed in a few places but normal.
I believe the sinks vent to the toilet and then out. The shower vents out. The tub auto vents. Thats about all I know.
The plumber is coming back to check the auto vent. He said there are such things as defects. He did previously run a camera down the vents and there were no obstructions. He said the vent 45ed in a few places but normal.
I believe the sinks vent to the toilet and then out. The shower vents out. The tub auto vents. Thats about all I know.
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Lakee911
I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)
Maybe this is dumb, but would an inferred camera let you see whats' going on inside the walls? Crank up the A/C and turn on the hot water?
Jason
Jason
Mikey
Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
Norcal - I was wondering the same thing, especially after seeing the diagram, which seems to show the vent on the opposite side of the shower from the direction of the connection to the stack. Not a smoking gun, though, and I wonder how somebody would make that mistake.
I'm not sure the infrared camera would show anything the visual camera didn't; the visual would reveal whether the vent is in the right place.
I'm not sure the infrared camera would show anything the visual camera didn't; the visual would reveal whether the vent is in the right place.
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Geniescience
Homeowner
Good diagram.
Kim
First, congrats on the drawing, since it shows so little, it is just right. Which way is "down" to the stack? Is the shower the last or the first, or do you know which 'unit' is first, second, etc?
Norcal in post #26 above mentioned a good idea, a possibility. A vent has to be on the side of the P-trap downwards towards the stack. Does your shower only produce bad air when running, and only when running and at no other time? How are you able to tell it is only from the shower drain?
David
Kim
First, congrats on the drawing, since it shows so little, it is just right. Which way is "down" to the stack? Is the shower the last or the first, or do you know which 'unit' is first, second, etc?
Norcal in post #26 above mentioned a good idea, a possibility. A vent has to be on the side of the P-trap downwards towards the stack. Does your shower only produce bad air when running, and only when running and at no other time? How are you able to tell it is only from the shower drain?
David
Tbplumbloco
New Member
sewer gas
What did the plumber say?
What did the plumber say?
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