Setting drain fit tile shower

[Steve king]

i am pouring a shower pan. Preslope, liner, and then sloped pan. I have plywood subfloor 3/4 inch and I put another 1/2 inch of plywood over it. I am confused about drain height. Using 3 piece drain with lock ring for liner.
I have seen different placement of the drain in diy videos. Some people put the bottom or flange of the drain flush with the subfloor. Others put the drain a half inch or so above the subfloor.
I decided to have a licensed plumber reset the drain. He says the flange should be flush on the floor. If I do that, and then lay the mud for the preslope, does the Mortor go right to the edge of the flange? It would be very thin there not eve 1/4 inch along the edge of the drain, more like 1/8 inch
I bought an Oates 3 PC drain and it seems to want to sit on top of the subfloor, since it does not have screw holes to mount to the subfloor. I showed the drain to my plumber and he said it would be flat on subfloor

I have seen some videos where they mud under the drain on the preslope, with the drain raised.

I would rather do what the plumber says and screw a drain flange to the subfloor. I am just concerned about how thin the mud will be at the slope

Sorry this is so long. Just want things done right and to last. Thanks for your advice

 

[CountryBumkin]

You don't really "pour" a shower pan. Your not using concrete. You would be using Deck-mud with is more like wet sand. It's a ratio of Portland cement and course sand. More here http://www.johnbridge.com/how-to/deck-mud/

Here's a view of what a typical Shower "Liner" install looks like. You have two "Dry-pack layers (one below liner with the preslope, and one above the liner.

But the modern/preferred way is to use a surface applied membrane like Kerdi or USG Durock Shower System. This uses a special drain with a bonding flange. You still do the Drypack with preslope the same way as with a liner, but then the drain is installed so the bonding flange is flat on top of the deck mud. Then you use thinset to apply the waterproofing membrane (fabric) to the deck mud and drain flange. You tile directly on the membrane. The real benift of this method is that the walls and floor is tied together as one unit, and the water that soaks through the tile/grout only goes as far as the membrane (with a Liner the water soaks the Drypack layer under the tile and the water then works its way to the drain's weep holes) so with the fabric method there is much less water retained and the shower dries out real fast.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Dj2]

"I decided to have a licensed plumber reset the drain. He says the flange should be flush on the floor. " - what he was saying is that the drain strainer should be flush with the top of the finished floor. The reason: to allow all of the water to drain properly, and not just sit there on top of the drain set.

Can you upload some pics?

 

[Jadnashua]

Your preslope over a plywood floor needs to have some thickness to it to survive, so if the clamping drain is mounted at the floor, you'd only have maybe 1/4" or so of thickness of the mortar right next to it. That is way too thin! Ideally, a preslope would be closer to 3/4" or even 1-1/14" thick at the drain over a wooden subfloor. The top edge of the drain without the clamping ring attached should be flush with the preslope. Then, when you attach the liner, it is a straight shot into the drain via the sloped bed to the weep holes. Then, the setting bed on top is parallel to the sloped bed and liner below it, and you adjust the top half to be flush with the top of the tile.

While a correctly built 'conventional' shower works, it's old school, and there are better ways. Surface applied membranes mean only one mudbed (or a preformed pan), and then make the entire shower enclosure totally waterproof...then, you tile right on top of the membrane.

 

[Steve king]

"I decided to have a licensed plumber reset the drain. He says the flange should be flush on the floor. " - what he was saying is that the drain strainer should be flush with the top of the finished floor. The reason: to allow all of the water to drain properly, and not just sit there on top of the drain set.

Can you upload some pics?

"I decided to have a licensed plumber reset the drain. He says the flange should be flush on the floor. " - what he was saying is that the drain strainer should be flush with the top of the finished floor. The reason: to allow all of the water to drain properly, and not just sit there on top of the drain set.

Can you upload some pics?

 

[Steve king]

 

[Steve king]

Thank you all for your reply. The first pic with the white drain has the flange off the floor by about a half inch. The second one has flange sitting on the subfloor. Seems like the first would be right for the preslope since that would put about a half inch of mud at the edge of the drain. Then the liner would be on top of the slope and attached with the ring.
I watched a guy put flat on floor and end the mud before the drain and lay down the liner with part of it on the subfloor, that does not seem right.

I just want the plumber to set the drain at the right height. I already had to cut it out once because the first guy set it wrong

Thanks

 

[Steve king]

"I decided to have a licensed plumber reset the drain. He says the flange should be flush on the floor. " - what he was saying is that the drain strainer should be flush with the top of the finished floor. The reason: to allow all of the water to drain properly, and not just sit there on top of the drain set.

Can you upload some pics?

Your preslope over a plywood floor needs to have some thickness to it to survive, so if the clamping drain is mounted at the floor, you'd only have maybe 1/4" or so of thickness of the mortar right next to it. That is way too thin! Ideally, a preslope would be closer to 3/4" or even 1-1/14" thick at the drain over a wooden subfloor. The top edge of the drain without the clamping ring attached should be flush with the preslope. Then, when you attach the liner, it is a straight shot into the drain via the sloped bed to the weep holes. Then, the setting bed on top is parallel to the sloped bed and liner below it, and you adjust the top half to be flush with the top of the tile.

While a correctly built 'conventional' shower works, it's old school, and there are better ways. Surface applied membranes mean only one mudbed (or a preformed pan), and then make the entire shower enclosure totally waterproof...then, you tile right on top of the membrane.

 

[Steve king]

Your preslope over a plywood floor needs to have some thickness to it to survive, so if the clamping drain is mounted at the floor, you'd only have maybe 1/4" or so of thickness of the mortar right next to it. That is way too thin! Ideally, a preslope would be closer to 3/4" or even 1-1/14" thick at the drain over a wooden subfloor. The top edge of the drain without the clamping ring attached should be flush with the preslope. Then, when you attach the liner, it is a straight shot into the drain via the sloped bed to the weep holes. Then, the setting bed on top is parallel to the sloped bed and liner below it, and you adjust the top half to be flush with the top of the tile.

While a correctly built 'conventional' shower works, it's old school, and there are better ways. Surface applied membranes mean only one mudbed (or a preformed pan), and then make the entire shower enclosure totally waterproof...then, you tile right on top of the membrane.

\\Thanks for your reply. I really can't afford the better options. I plan on sealing everything well and am being cautious to create the best shower I can afford. I posted some pics. I am still not sure, but I don't think the flange should be on the subfloor, but up enough to get at least a half inch of mud under it for the preslope. I am pretty handy, but still confused.

 

[Jadnashua]

Industry standards call for a mudbed over a wooden subfloor to be a minimum of 1-1/4" thick. Now, many tile pros cheat that, but 1/2" is really pushing it. Deck mud is not very strong, so needs some thickness so that it doesn't just crack up. If it were a bonded mudbed to a concrete slab, that is a different story, but you can't bond it to a wooden subfloor in the same manner - it needs to be able to float while being strong enough to stay together.

Your liner should go straight onto the lower section of the clamping drain...no dip to the subflooring! The whole idea is so that it can drain, and how would it get out of that dip without a buildup?

I'd ask your question over at www.johnbridge.com. They have a significant resource in their 'liberry' (sic) that describes all of this, and if that doesn't answer your questions, they have lots of tillers on that site.