Service Pole to Well House Underground Line Specs

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CHOLLA BOB

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1" Schedule 40 is in the 60 foot trench with a curve glued on one end and the opposite end is the straight end. I have a piece of aluminum electric fence wire pulled through this length. Should I now pull a stronger, new piece of 1/4" marine poly through with the fence wire, for the final pull of the three 10 gauge wires? Can I do this on my own, through the straight part to the final turn, pulling the poly with conduit lube? Or do I need a second person pushing the 10 ga into the conduit. I had no compressor to blow through a pull line so went with the fence wire which is hard to glue to the pipe. I will pull wire through final 5 foot verticals after I get past the 60 feet. Snowed in so this is getting interesting with the no water situation: winds blew and filled in all tracks then froze.
 

CHOLLA BOB

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Electrician back from vacation. When I told him that I was putting in Hot Hot Ground 10 gauge, he said there has to be a fourth Neutral. I had dropped the Neutral as he had said a sub-panel needed 8 gauge. Anyway, getting the 10 gauge neutral today as electrician says that we can run a low demand 120V outlet. That's back to original plan as I will want a 120V breaker to isolate the well pump electric, when that 120V gets wired. I probably should have just hung a UF clothes line two weeks ago and find out if this is all going to work.
 

Cacher_Chick

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The danger in pulling wires is that there always seems to be a sharp edge somewhere that will catch the insulation and make the wire good only for recycling. A second person to guide the wire into the conduit while you pull is much preferred.

If you are doing a subpanel in the well house you need hot hot neutral ground and ground rods to meet code. Some electricians might just put in 2 hots for the well and a separate hot neutral ground for a receptacle, but it wouldn't fly by most inspectors as the NEC does not allow an outbuilding to be fed with 2 separate circuits.
 

CHOLLA BOB

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The wife is actually going to help! She must be getting desperate. Filed the inside edges of conduit. Have a giant bottle of wire lube and reviewed pulling wire with 20 year veteran electric contractor today. He said I can pull through two conduit swing turns easy. If there is any point where I glue around the wire, does gluing on the male side of connector (glue goes outside of pipe) effect the wires inside? This is the gray PVC conduit glue. Some glues melt the plastic a bit as ABS.

Running Hot Hot Ground (with the Neutral) through conduit to a well house wall mounted junction box, spliced to UF wire (UF 3/4" connector) running 2 yards to pressure switch, for now. Will replace UF with conduit in well house ahead. Bought the neutral today and it will be pulled with other wires and remain capped till sub-panel box is set, which will be sooner than latter. Thanks and Happy New Year!
 
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CHOLLA BOB

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After 24 hours of running water and well house breaker On, I believe that this problem is fixed! Finished conduit. Ran the four wires. Electrician hooked up and did some neat Liquid-tight conduit work in the well house. The water was not running until we found that inside the Franklin Control box, the connector's had shifted on closing the box yesterday. So the problem was the underground splice and old line shorting with moist ground conditions, diagnosed when I disconnected the line from the well house and it shut the breaker off, repeatedly. We had -30 freezes last year which could have further stressed the UF conductor insulation. We have our water back! I did meet some real characters around at the water refill machine and will miss them.

Since I have that trench still open, I may throw in an extra 3/4 inch line and cap for future options; as I am having a tough time filling in that hole without thinking it over. 3/4 is so cheap and it would allow a separate 120V circuit, isolating the well breaker from the 120V outlet breaker. That fourth neutral wire is unused and the electrician had said we could run two more wires through 1" for the 120V, but it has been said here not to mix circuit wires in same conduit. I had a nice Siemens 80amp 240/120V two breaker box which now serves as a junction box in the well house: real neat and leaves the sub-panel option open.

I can't thank everyone enough for helping through this on the TL Electrical Forum: your help and encouragement has been gold! Thanks for staying the course on this and putting up with my slow work pace and questions. You all made 2012 for us, a real new year!
 

Cacher_Chick

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Glad to hear you got it worked out!

You could run another conduit for some outdoor receptacles since the trench is open. Any future expansion in that direction could just as easily come out of the subpanel instead of the main now.

Did you ask the electrician if he wanted to buy some new safety gear? :p
 

ActionDave

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Since I have that trench still open, I may throw in an extra 3/4 inch line and cap for future options; as I am having a tough time filling in that hole without thinking it over. 3/4 is so cheap and it would allow a separate 120V circuit, isolating the well breaker from the 120V outlet breaker. That fourth neutral wire is unused and the electrician had said we could run two more wires through 1" for the 120V, but it has been said here not to mix circuit wires in same conduit. !
Nothing at all wrong with multiple circuits in one conduit.
 

Kevink1955

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Glad to hear you got it going, a hot shower in your own home is something we take for granted.

I would not give up on the idea of the sub panel for your outlets. I think runing a seperate circuit violates code. All circuits to an outbuilding must be on the same disconnect, having a seperate breaker for your 110V loads would violate that.

And yes you can run multiple circuits in 1 conduit but it still would not work for you due to the single disconnect rule.
 

Cacher_Chick

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One can run multiple circuits in any conduit, but only ONE can be in the outbuilding. If more than one circuit is needed in the outbuilding, then it must have a subpanel.
 

ActionDave

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Correct. I wiffed on that one. Nothing wrong with multiple circuits in one conduit, but not if they go to a second building.
 

CHOLLA BOB

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Glad to hear you got it worked out!

You could run another conduit for some outdoor receptacles since the trench is open. Any future expansion in that direction could just as easily come out of the subpanel instead of the main now.

Did you ask the electrician if he wanted to buy some new safety gear? :p

The only safety equipment the electrician wore was his Thinsulate rubber soled boots. When I asked how it is working in safety gear, he just laughed. He passed on using my dielectric rubber livestock feed bowl. It was ankle deep mud that day.

I will go with running additional wire through the existing 1" conduit. I am going to drop in the additional 3/4" and wire an outdoor plug outside the well house, if that's OK. There is a container beyond the well house and I could hook up to this line in the future.

Met someone at the town coin water machine whose well dried up a year ago, which put a perspective on things. Glad to have the water back! Thanks!
 

JWelectric

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225.30 Number of Supplies.

Where more than one building or other structure is on the same property and under single management, each additional building or other structure that is served by a branch circuit or feeder on the load side of the service disconnecting means shall be supplied by only one feeder or branch circuit unless permitted in 225.30(A) through (E). For the purpose of this section, a multiwire branch circuit shall be considered a single circuit.

(A) Special Conditions. Additional feeders or branch circuits shall be permitted to supply the following:

(1) Fire pumps

(2) Emergency systems

(3) Legally required standby systems

(4) Optional standby systems

(5) Parallel power production systems

(6) Systems designed for connection to multiple sources of supply for the purpose of enhanced reliability
.

(B) Special Occupancies. By special permission, additional feeders or branch circuits shall be permitted for either of the following:

(1) Multiple-occupancy buildings where there is no space available for supply equipment accessible to all occupants

(2) A single building or other structure sufficiently large to make two or more supplies necessary

(C) Capacity Requirements. Additional feeders or branch circuits shall be permitted where the capacity requirements are in excess of 2000 amperes at a supply voltage of 600 volts or less.

(D) Different Characteristics. Additional feeders or branch circuits shall be permitted for different voltages, frequencies, or phases or for different uses, such as control of outside lighting from multiple locations.

(E) Documented Switching Procedures. Additional feeders or branch circuits shall be permitted to supply installations under single management where documented safe switching procedures are established and maintained for disconnection.
 

Cacher_Chick

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So JW, what do you think of him running a 2nd circuit that supplies a receptacle that is on the OUTSIDE of the well house?

As far as I am concerned, as long as it does not enter the outbuilding it is fine.
 

JWelectric

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If the receptacle is attached to the building it is serving that building and therefore a code violation.
 

DonL

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Why a additional wire ?

I will go with running additional wire through the existing 1" conduit. I am going to drop in the additional 3/4" and wire an outdoor plug outside the well house, if that's OK. There is a container beyond the well house and I could hook up to this line in the future.

If You already ran a Neutral conductor , then why would you want to run a additional wire ?

Did I miss something ?
 

Cacher_Chick

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So he could put it on a post 2" from the building and it would be ok? :rolleyes:

The term "serving that building" looks like a grey area to me.
 

DonL

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So he could put it on a post 2" from the building and it would be ok? :rolleyes:

The term "serving that building" looks like a grey area to me.


I agree, But the 2" post may be considered a new structure.

As long as you don't run the feed back into the building it seems that it would not be serving it.


In my day the only thing that we needed in the Out Building was a Sears Catalog...
 
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Ballvalve

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The only safety equipment the electrician wore was his Thinsulate rubber soled boots. When I asked how it is working in safety gear, he just laughed. He passed on using my dielectric rubber livestock feed bowl. It was ankle deep mud that day.

I will go with running additional wire through the existing 1" conduit. I am going to drop in the additional 3/4" and wire an outdoor plug outside the well house, if that's OK. There is a container beyond the well house and I could hook up to this line in the future.

Met someone at the town coin water machine whose well dried up a year ago, which put a perspective on things. Glad to have the water back! Thanks!

What? No tires to stand on either? But thats the REALITY of most electricians.
 
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