Second Floor Tub Leaking Into Main Level Bathroom

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theboneman21

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Ok so I am at a loss here. At first I thought it was the overflow because the drain is not lined up with the hole cut into the tub so a gasket doesn't fit. I just sealed the whole thing off for now since the only people who bath are the kids.

So...still leaking. And for the life of me I cannot figure out a pattern because there seems to be moisture/drippage even after a shower.

Complicating matters is a seeming lack of access to the pipes from anywhere other than below.

Thank you in advance for the assistance and what's sure to be an onslaught of ignoramus questions.

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Terry

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Finding leaks from a tub/shower can have it's moments.

Leaks like that have been from water bouncing off a body and onto a shower valve, getting past the screws that hold the plate on.
A leaking tub diverter pushing water into the wall.
A leak from a shower head that lands outside the enclosure.
A cracked shower arm in the wall.
Somebody showering with the curtain or door open.
Overfilling a tub with a bad or misplaced overflow washer.
A loose shower drain, moving when weight is moved near it.
A bad joint or pipe section of the tub drain.

Those are just a few that I sometimes find. It's fun trying to find them.

We start by filling the tub to see if the lower drain works.
Then you start working upwards until you find it.

This morning I had a job where the tub spout diverter and been screwed on so tight that it had cut a hole in the 1/2" copper that the tub spout was on. I had to heat and remove the old beat up copper and solder on a new copper pipe for the new tub spout.
 

theboneman21

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Thank you. So I am thinking I want to do all at once so I need some help.

When I replaced the floor drain the old putty was dried out so I am guessing the previous owner last did it years ago. We bought the house in 2012 and I am given to understand putty lasts 10 years or so.

My guess is the other stuff may need a tweak.

In 2014 I replaced the hot cartridge because it was whistling and dripping and turned out the washer was shot

So now I guess I'll redo the hot and also the cold too.

What I am unsure of is the following:

When doing the cartridges do need tape, putty or silicone ?

For the tub spout - I am guessing I should take it off and check in there. Again maybe look for worn washers or something and replace ?

Shower arm - same scenario, check for old worn stuff.

My only hang up is the diverter. If you look at the picture in the first post, mine is a pull out. How on earth do I remove it and check it out ?
 

Jadnashua

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When doing the cartridges do need tape, putty or silicone ?
Usually, none of the above

For the tub spout - I am guessing I should take it off and check in there. Again maybe look for worn washers or something and replace ?
You could remove the spout, but normally, there are no washers to replace...if it is a screw-on device, you should have tape or pipe dope on the threads (assuming it is a pipe thread, and not a straight threaded adapter). If it's a push-on device, the o-ring might be bad, or the pipe is scored or out-of-round, and it can't make a seal. What could be an issue is if the pipe it attaches to, or the fitting in the wall has been damaged (split, cracked, pin-holes, etc., or no pipe dope or tape was used when needed to make the seal)

Shower arm - same scenario, check for old worn stuff.
Same sort of thing for the tub spout...the shower arm inside the wall or the fitting it goes into could be damaged. Depending on the size of the hole, you may be able to pull back the escutcheon and look to see if anything is leaking from there.

Worst case, you may need to cut an access panel on the wall behind things and look. If you're lucky, that's in a closet, and easily accessible. You might cut out some of the damaged drywall in the ceiling below, and see if you can locate the source of the problem. It usually needs to be replaced once soaked anyways, so might as well bite that bullet.
 

Cacher_Chick

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You never said, so I have to ask what is on the opposite side of the wall where the shower valve is? We seldomly hesitate to open up a wall to diagnose a leak like that. Walls are generally easy to fix. Rotten framing and mold from a leak let go too long is much harder to deal with.
 

theboneman21

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Hey guys

One of the pictures shows the potential access. The toilet blocks part of the way but that is probably manageable.

That being said I cut open the ceilling below and seem to have found the culprit. I am far from on expert but it almost looks as if it was cracked already and someone sealed it. That being said, what can I use to seal this ? I have some bonding putty that said it dries hard as steel in minutes. Usable? Or should I use something else?
 

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Reach4

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Your picture suggest to me that the gray fitting nearest the center of the photo is leaking.

I am thing you could devise a test with some sheets of plastic above and below the suspect fitting. See where the water exits that sandwich.
 
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Listen to what #7 wrote. He is correct.

Your black ABS DWV pipes are fine. You think it's glue over a crack, but it's calcification and salts from a leak above it.

You can fix this easily with quality Sharkbites. You may or may not have the DIY skills for this, seeing how you incorrectly diagnosed your problem.
 

theboneman21

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Thanks guys. So from what I can tell the current fitting is a compression fitting that screws it tight? So basically -

Get proper sized shark bite elbow fitting. Shut off water supply to house. Unscrew current fitting. Replace with shark bite elbow. When I put the shark bite on, do I need to double down with some sort or sealant IE Teflon or silicone?
 

theboneman21

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You really need to look up how Sharkbite works. This is advertised information.

Your lack of knowledge strongly suggests you use a licensed professional for this repair.

I know it "pushes in" and creates a seal. I guess I am just wondering if I need to add additional measures. Probably not but doesn't hurt to ask
 

Jadnashua

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Two critical things needed when prepping a pipe for use with any of the push-on connectors:
- make sure the end is cut square
- make sure there are no sharp edges

The things seal with an o-ring, and if the pipe has a sharp edge, it can damage the o-ring, and thus the seal. Acme makes a pipe champher tool to relieve the sharp edge at the end of the pipe, but you may not need it. If the pipe has deep scratches in it, you may not get a Sharkbite to seal. All you might need to do is tighten the compression nut on what you have, assuming nothing is cracked or otherwise broken.
 

Cacher_Chick

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The calcium deposits have likely built up in yhe compression fitting where it has been leaking, and will prevent anything from sealing properly. Both a compression fitting and a sharkbite require a clean smooth surface on the O.D. of the pipe.
 

theboneman21

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The calcium deposits have likely built up in yhe compression fitting where it has been leaking, and will prevent anything from sealing properly. Both a compression fitting and a sharkbite require a clean smooth surface on the O.D. of the pipe.

Assuming the pipe end has some deposits, what is the most effective way to clean it off?
 

Cacher_Chick

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Assuming the pipe end has some deposits, what is the most effective way to clean it off?

If the end of the pipe has not been deformed by the compression fitting and everything comes apart without damaging it, the calcium will probably wipe right off. If need be, soak a rag with vinegar and wrap it around the effected pipe to soak & dissolve the deposit.

The worst case scenario (which is not so bad), is that the ends of the piping is deformed, in which case you will have to cut the piping to splice in some new pieces to make up for the length that has been removed.

If you had the correct crimping tool and clamps, you could just intall a regular PEX tee and be done with the repair in a few minutes.
 

Reach4

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I don't know those fittings, but what happens if you turn the knurled nut clockwise a bit... can you get an extra quarter turn maybe?
 

theboneman21

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OK

I haven't tried to disassemble it yet. That is a project for the coming week when the youngsters are at school and I can shut off the water for a lengthy period of time

Thanks for all the tips gang!!!
 
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