Searching for help with locating places to discharge water softener

[Topper]

To start off I hope that I am posting in the correct location for my problem. I am in the middle of installing a home water softener and now dealing with where to drain the tank discharge. The only option I see is (1) connecting to a 2" line from a bathroom tub that travels into the main line that goes into the septic tank. The (2) is to run a 3/4 or 1 " sch 40 over head and across my floor stringers to where my furnace and hot water discharge in the even of over flow.
The floor drain is connected to the inside French drains that lead out into a pond that also receives run off from storm drainage. As I see it these are the only 2 options I have I would like to hear others thought as to the best way of finishing my project.

 

[Bannerman]

Always observe local code requirements for any plumbing project.

You do not necessarily need sch 40 for an overhead run. Flexible Polypipe would work well as it likely could be an uninterrupted run with few elbows and other fittings. Softener installation directions typically advise increasing the drain line diameter dependant on run distance.

If your furnace/water heater drain is located within a basement, that drain will likely require a pump to lift effluent to the septic tank inlet height. Because the water softener drain line will be pressurized, it often may be drained to a higher elevation drain, such as a laundry equipment drain standpipe.

As a water softener conditions potable water, the drain connection to the sewer is to incorporate an air gap to prevent possible cross-contamination of the potable water supply with sewage.

 

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[Topper]

Bannerman, Thanks for the feed back.The below picture is of my basement and the 2" line running from one of my bathrooms into the main septic line. My thought was to cut out and install a 2"Sani T with the T directed to the side. At that point I would install a 2" P trap with a short stand pipe. The reason for it being short is the limited space before to allow an air gap.
My other option as I said in my post would be to run a 1" sch40 from my water softener to the floor drain which is next to my furnace and hot water tank. I have 5/8 od 1/2 id poly pipe. a direct run from Softener tank to floor drain is about 25ft then down 8ft to floor drain. My floor drain is NOT connected to my septic but flows to my inside drain system then out under the footer to where it meets up with where the local storm drain run up goes. The only reason I thought about 1" is due to high volume of water that it can handle. Any other advice would be great .

 

[Cacher_Chick]

You cannot use a fixed connection between the softner discharge and the existing drain piping, there must be an air gap. A standpipe positioned where you are looking will be too short, which will result in any backup in the main line dumping directly into your basement.

In situations where the sewer is completely overhead, it is best to install a proper standpipe plumbed to a sink or laundry pump which discharges to the building drain.

A side-benefit to this is that it also gives you the option of installing a slop sink in the basement, which is really handy if you are a diy'er.

 

[Bannerman]

I agree with the concerns cacher_chick expressed regarding the standpipe being too short although I recall another forum poster had installed similar, teed into the 3" mainline just before it exited the foundation wall. As his mainline exit location was a few feet below the floor joists above, this permitted his standpipe to be somewhat longer than you propose.

Without any other alternate drain point, cacher_chick's suggested solution may be viable, but I tend to consider it counter intuitive to install an electric pump to lift drain water when the softener's drain pressure will likely be more than sufficient to allow routing the drain-line to an existing main level drain and then allow gravity to carry the discharge to the septic system.

I have 5/8 od 1/2 id poly pipe. a direct run from Softener tank to floor drain is about 25ft then down 8ft to floor drain

Your softener's installation instructions may state the drain diameter is to be increased to 3/4" when the run distance is greater than 15'.

In this situation, because the drain line will drop 8', you may wish to consider installing a vacuum breaker device directly before the drop to eliminate the vertical column of water placing negative pressure on the softener. This could occur if there is a disruption to the water supply when the softener commences or is undergoing regeneration. Resin tanks are designed for substantial water pressure, but will often easily collapse if the internal pressure is less than external.

IF your furnace is high efficiency gas, you may wish to consider rerouting the furnace drain as gas combustion condensate discharge will be acidic. If the acidic discharge is flowing undiluted and un-neutralized into your foundation perimeter drainage system, it will likely be increasing the acidity of the soil in direct contact with the building footings.

 

[Treeman]

I agree with the concerns cacher_chick expressed regarding the standpipe being too short although I recall another forum poster had installed similar, teed into the 3" mainline just before it exited the foundation wall. As his mainline exit location was a few feet below the floor joists above, this permitted his standpipe to be somewhat longer than you propose.

Bannerman might be referring to a post of mine. A licensed plumber retrofitted my 3 inch drain line and installed a softener stand pipe similar to the picture below, but mine goes into the side of the main drain and the trap bottom actually sits a few inches below the main drain bottom. When I get home, I could measure how tall the stand pipe is, if helpful.

There might be venting concerns to address?? Since your main drain should have a 1/4 drop per ft., could you locate the stand pipe farther down the line to gain some length with the stand pipe?

 

[Topper]

You cannot use a fixed connection between the softner discharge and the existing drain piping, there must be an air gap. A standpipe positioned where you are looking will be too short, which will result in any backup in the main line dumping directly into your basement.

In situations where the sewer is completely overhead, it is best to install a proper standpipe plumbed to a sink or laundry pump which discharges to the building drain.

A side-benefit to this is that it also gives you the option of installing a slop sink in the basement, which is really handy if you are a diy'er.

cacher_chick, thanks for your input and advice. Putting a sink in my basement would surely add much cost and for having no other reason but to drain my water softener discharge doesn't seem reasonable at this point. It's becoming more and more clear that running a line over head to where my furnace/air conditioning unit dumps when it needs.
I would have used a "pro" plumber but after having one come and evaluate , you wouldn't think I would be given the advice he gave. Most of the plumbing specialist don't even carry an air gap. They all told me the same thing that everyone just rigs things together . The guy that came would have not used any air gap, but instead do as some other have done drilling a hole and install pipe. I hope this gives you all an idea of what I am working against .

 

[Topper]

Bannerman might be referring to a post of mine. A licensed plumber retrofitted my 3 inch drain line and installed a softener stand pipe similar to the picture below, but mine goes into the side of the main drain and the trap bottom actually sits a few inches below the main drain bottom. When I get home, I could measure how tall the stand pipe is, if helpful.

There might be venting concerns to address?? Since your main drain should have a 1/4 drop per ft., could you locate the stand pipe farther down the line to gain some length with the stand pipe?

Treeman, it sounds a lot like what I had in mind to connect mine...only in mine I would connect into a 2" line that a bathroom tub drains into then it drains into the main drain. When measuring it looks like the bottom of the Trap would be 1-2 inches below the 2 inch pipe. The stand pipe would go up a short way and fitted with a air gap. Just guessing due to the top of the air gap coming close to the above floor I think it would be about half as much as this picture shows. Again it would be going into the side as you described , and not on top.

 

[Bannerman]

Bannerman might be referring to a post of mine.

Treeman, I recall the photo you attached and in searching through your posting history, I did locate your thread on this subject from 2017 but that was not the thread I was referring to. In the one I mentioned, the poster later returned to include photos of his actual installation once completed.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

cacher_chick, thanks for your input and advice. Putting a sink in my basement would surely add much cost and for having no other reason but to drain my water softener discharge doesn't seem reasonable at this point. It's becoming more and more clear that running a line over head to where my furnace/air conditioning unit dumps when it needs.

There are always those who are more interested in getting in and out and collecting their check than they are in doing the best job they can do.
You surely do not need a sink, I only mentioned it as another possible convenience of installing the pump.

Down south where there is no danger of freezing, some places just pipe it outside. I prefer to look at the upside and downside of all of the possibilities and like to choose the one that provides the highest margin of safety and lowest amount of risk when things go wrong. For that reason, I would prefer to run the drain line up to the floor above and tie into the laundry or another fixture drain that can be accessed using an air gap.

In our plumbing code, filter and softner discharge is included in the section for indirect waste, and because the device is directly connected to the potable water supply, protection must be in place to prevent the possibility of cross-contamination.

 

[Topper]

There are always those who are more interested in getting in and out and collecting their check than they are in doing the best job they can do.
You surely do not need a sink, I only mentioned it as another possible convenience of installing the pump.

Down south where there is no danger of freezing, some places just pipe it outside. I prefer to look at the upside and downside of all of the possibilities and like to choose the one that provides the highest margin of safety and lowest amount of risk when things go wrong. For that reason, I would prefer to run the drain line up to the floor above and tie into the laundry or another fixture drain that can be accessed using an air gap.

In our plumbing code, filter and softner discharge is included in the section for indirect waste, and because the device is directly connected to the potable water supply, protection must be in place to prevent the possibility of cross-contamination.

catcher_chick, I agree with you and your explanation for the need of an air gap. I bough one over the internet that fit a 2" pipe but so far the only reasonable place to install is along my basement ceiling. I'm just concerned the stand pipe would be too short and water would spill onto the basement floor.
I sure wish there was a simpler way, and one that would work and be correct when done.