Sand point well problems

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heath1993*

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OK so I started driving a 1-1/4 inch well point, got down to around 30 feet checked and had about 9.5 feet of water in pipe. so took waterhose ran down the pipe and turned on tried to clean out the pipe. after it finally reached top of the well pipe. the water would drain back down at a good pace or at least seem so. went and bought a harbor freight shallow well pump with tank. hooked it all up wont pump any water regardless primed it everything. checked the pump in a 5 gallon bucket of water it pumps it easily. so then i drove the well point down another 2 feet and still getting nothing but now hitting something really hard. after multiple hits it barely moved an 1/2 inch. so why isn't the pump pumping any water. this is my first time doing this just idk what else to try or do. any help is much appreciated
 

heath1993*

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Also want to add now I have around 11 feet of water in well pipe. after driving it down another 2 feet as I mentioned above.
 

Valveman

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So, your at 32' with 11' of water. That means the static level is 21' before you even start the pump. The best jet pump on its best day can lift about 24' max. If the well is making any water you will need a deep well jet to get water to the surface.
 

heath1993*

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Well I know it take a long time for a water hose trying to fill the well up with water. but one part I don't understand is when i put the hose all the way down the well and turn it on. it seems to never fill up the pipe until i start pulling the hose up then it will fill up somewhat quickly. then it runs water out the well pipe even if i shove the water hose back to the bottom. my theory is that at first its pushing the water out the screen. then when I lift the hose it don't have pressure at the scsreen so then it fills up the pipe. the water drains down the pipe fast when I turn the water off tho.
 

heath1993*

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OK so if I need a deep well jet. is there any of them that will fit in a 1-1/4 well sand point or am I just done as far as this well at least.?
 

heath1993*

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OK thanks, so you think that its just to deep for a shallow well bc by time it start pulling water the water level drops then it can pull it up? I just know I've watched so many people hit water at like 25ft or deeper on videos then they hooked up a shallow well pump started pumping. just odd to me
 

Reach4

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If this is for a nice house, consider getting a well drilled. Quiet submersible. No priming drama. It's an investment, for real, as opposed to a new car, which is an expense.

If this is for your cabin, it is possible that you have a vacuum leak keeping you from lifting the water. So you may not get 3 gpm from your sandpoint, what you get may be enough.

You can look for above ground vacuum leaks by slathering all accessible joints, including the suction connection on the pump, with shaving cream. If it gets sucked in, you have a vacuum leak.

It is also possible to put a combination vacuum+pressure gauge on the input line. If you are drawing a strong vacuum, and don't get water, the water is too deep. If the vacuum is weak, then probable vacuum leak. Of course adding a gauge adds more places for a potential vacuum leak.

Also, when measuring depth to water, you are measuring with respect to the highest place in the pump or the highest pipe feeding the pump. So if your pump is on a platform, that increases pumping height.
 
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heath1993*

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Yea I don't get any water at all it never pumps any water just sputter maybe a little out the outlet on pump. when I turn the pump off i hear little bit of water running back down but could be just water draining from the pump housing into pipe.
 

heath1993*

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Yes I'm measuring from highest point. its just kinda weird to me at least that so many videos of people using shallow well pumps with similar depths and water levels. With no problems at all. Its like I'm missing something
 

Reach4

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So here is the deal. The real depth that you can pump from is determined by the local barometric pressure. Since you are near sea level, you don't have to do the compensation for altitude that people in higher place would do.

25 ft number has margin. Some margin for barometric pressure, and some for draw down. You could pump from maybe 28 ft typically (to the top of the pump/pipe). Unless your ground is course sand, draw down would be a problem.

Your pump could be deficient (clogged jet maybe) and you could have a vacuum leak. How far down is the top of your screen?? If the water draws down to there, I suspect that could suck air.

One cure for a vacuum leak would be to run some polyethylene tubing down the sand point. Then the only potential vacuum leak would be right at the pump and the tubing adapter.

3/4 inch SIDR poly pipe would be good for this. Not a high-volume suction pipe, but you don't have a high-volume well. 3/4 or 1-inch pex would be good too. And crimp or clamp elbows would not leak.
 

heath1993*

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OK so I did that today. I bought some 1 inch PEX pipe and put it all the way down hooked it up to the pump and ran it for a good while. No water what so ever. no leaks either I just walked out there and tried it again putting shaving cream around the 2 fittings I have no leaks. The screen I have is 36 inches so 3 feet from bottom.
 

heath1993*

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I have mostly clay soil i know this by few years back digging with an excavator to around 16 feet deep before I started hitting sandy clay mixture.
 

Reach4

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New pump? M
i have mostly clay soil i know this by few years back digging with an excavator to around 16 feet deep before i started hitting sandy clay mixture.
I think clay and sand point's don't work well together, tho you should be able to get some water. And if the screen is in sand, that should work. As you point out, the well accepts water so there is flow.



A nice 5 inch PVC-cased well, with a 1/2 hp submersible pump, would sure be nice. You could ask a local driller what a typical well drilled to maybe 40 or 50 ft costs. That would be a budgetary estimate, rather than a quote. On the other hand, you are invested in this sand point.

And if this is for cheap yard water instead of that premium water from the city, they probably won't let you get a well drilled. They like their monopoly.

Combo vacuum+pressure gauge would tell you if the pump was sucking enough.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Winters...4-Bottom-NPT-w-Brass-Internals-30Hg-0-100-PSI
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Winters...2-PCT-Contractor-Pressure-Gauge-30Hg-0-60-PSI
 

heath1993*

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New pump? M

I think clay and sand point's don't work well together, tho you should be able to get some water. And if the screen is in sand, that should work. As you point out, the well accepts water so there is flow.



A nice 5 inch PVC-cased well, with a 1/2 hp submersible pump, would sure be nice. You could ask a local driller what a typical well drilled to maybe 40 or 50 ft costs. That would be a budgetary estimate, rather than a quote. On the other hand, you are invested in this sand point.

And if this is for cheap yard water instead of that premium water from the city, they probably won't let you get a well drilled. They like their monopoly.

Combo vacuum+pressure gauge would tell you if the pump was sucking enough.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Winters...4-Bottom-NPT-w-Brass-Internals-30Hg-0-100-PSI
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Winters...2-PCT-Contractor-Pressure-Gauge-30Hg-0-60-PSI
Yes its a brand new pump from harbor freight, yes it was going to be for a garden and stuff like that. BC watering anything seems to run the water bill to a ridiculous price. I was thinking maybe I could just jet a 4 inch or 5 inch PVC pipe down then pour gravel and put down a submersible pump.
 

Bannerman

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I've watched so many people hit water at like 25ft or deeper on videos then they hooked up a shallow well pump started pumping.
While the theoretical maximum distance water may be lifted vertically by vacuum while in an environment with 1 Atmosphere pressure (Sea Level) is 10 metres (32.8'), most jet pumps are not capable of developing that much suction power.

The vertical lift limit for a good quality jet pump is about 24' or less as mentioned.

Since the top of the water is ~21' lower than the pump impeller, there is 21' of air that must be first eliminated from the pipe before any water will enter the pump. Jet pumps are not efficient at pumping air.

I see no mention of priming the suction line to eliminate air before the pump. There is also no mention of a foot valve or check valve installed at/or just above the sand point.

Without a foot or check valve to prevent the water within the suction line from draining out through the sand point, I anticipate priming the suction line will be difficult at best.
 
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heath1993*

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i had tried a check valve at top of the well. i also have tried filling up the well with water as pump was running by using a t adapter coming off top of well then screwing cap back on once it reach top and still wouldnt ever pump any water
 
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