Rust buildup in 1.5" shallow well pipe

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pjbMit

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I have a shallow well, and went to replace the 3/4 hp jet pump with a new Goulds pump, and replace the back flow valve. I noticed a lot of visible rust caking in the well pipe. What are my options for cleaning this up?

I'm assuming that knocking it free is bad, because it would fall back into the well, and maybe clog the well head? Is that correct?


I have a compressor, I could try putting my air line down about 20 feet, and give it some air pressure. Thats all of the length I have.

I don't know the depth of the well, or the height to the water table, but we're on a spring-fed lake, so you always hit water quickly, and the soil is sandy. We haven't had problems with clogging.

Right now, I removed the back flow valve and pump, and the well is open to the air.

I'm not interested in any type of chemical shock or treatment. I need to do something (or nothing), and put in a new backflow valve and the new pump tomorrow.

The well is old... as in more than 40 years old. It's a galvanized 1 1/4 inch pipe with a well head and strainer on the end.

Thanks!

-Philip
 
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Reach4

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I have a compressor, I could try putting my air line down about 20 feet, and give it some air pressure. Thats all of the length I have.
That would need a big engine-driven compressor with lots of CFM or a big electric with a big tank that could be discharged quickly down a line. A little electric unit would not be enough. So nothing it is.

I presume the flaking is inside of a steel I pipe, and not on the outsid of a smaller pipe with the foot valve that fits inside of the larger one. The smaller pipe should probably be plastic.

I am not a pro.
 
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Valveman

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Like Reach says a big air compressor is about the only way to clean that up without using acid. When you blow the well the debris will act like sand blast material on the way back up and shines steel casing like a new nickle.
 

pjbMit

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That would need a big engine-driven compressor with lots of CFM or a big electric with a big tank that could be discharged quickly down a line. A little electric unit would not be enough. So nothing it is.

I presume the flaking is inside of a steel I pipe, and not on the outsid of a smaller pipe with the foot valve that fits inside of the larger one. The smaller pipe should probably be plastic.

I am not a pro.

Thanks.... and also FYI, I spent a couple of hrs searching the forum before I posted... but I didn't see anything directly on point. Including, for example, that my well is below a 6 foot trap door in a hole dug under the kitchen and sealed with cinder blocks, so having an air lift erupt like old faithful in the middle of the kitchen is not a viable option, even if I rent a big, gas-powered air compressor which I can do.

1) Yes, the rust is caking on the inside of the pipe. Also, it's 1 1/4" galvanized. There is no inner pipe, and I don't believe this type of setup has well foot.
Instead at the end of the well it has a well head with a stainless steel screen. The back flow preventer installed above ground is what causes the well to stay primed.


2) I'm thinking I'll hook up pump, and run PVC the same diameter as the output port out of the well hole and out of the house. Then I can prime the pump, prime the well, and let it run for a while dumping everything outside with minimal restriction. Maybe that will help clean it up.

I'll obviously monitor it, and this set up is only temporary.

When I looked at the plumbing going to pressure gauge on the old pump, it was about 90% blocked with thick rust, including a hard round rust ball that had formed.


Any opinions on this, or any other thoughts.
 
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pjbMit

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Like Reach says a big air compressor is about the only way to clean that up without using acid. When you blow the well the debris will act like sand blast material on the way back up and shines steel casing like a new nickle.

This actually sounds good... I can rent a big commercial air compressor, but the well is located at the bottom of a small six foot deep pit dug out below the kitchen floor, so having it go off inside the house is not a viable option.

Are there any techniquest I can use to get around this limitation?
 

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Blowing is always messy. You can fabricate a diverter pipe and elbow, but even then it is still messy. Probably best to just replace as much steel as you can with PVC and don't disturb it anymore than necessary.
 

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Blowing is always messy. You can fabricate a diverter pipe and elbow, but even then it is still messy. Probably best to just replace as much steel as you can with PVC and don't disturb it anymore than necessary.
Thanks! I think I'll see what others also suggest, and then do something later today.

I'll post back with results.

Please keep the advice and suggestions coming. I really appreciate it, and will replace with PVC on the new installation.
 

pjbMit

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Is the idea of running an unrestricted full size PVC pipe from the pump output through the kitchen and out the door worthwhile?

I'm hoping I can run it to flush some rust out of the well and divert the water down a hill into the woods... but if I'm wasting my time, please let me know and I won't bother.

I'd use PVC (1"), and prime and cement everything together, to make it seem like a permanent setup, and then run it to try and flush the well. Anyone have any experience or advice vis-a-vis this approach?
 
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pjbMit

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A little acid would turn the rust loose and you could pump it out.
I'm game. I guess I'll be reading up on the subject, and maybe measuring the depth of the well.

I'll pump it directly outside the house, and I'll make sure that I learn enough so that I don't put my water supply at risk... that's critical.
 

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OK, based on some further reading, here's my game plan....

I'm going to hook up pump and backflow valve, close the shutoff to the house, and run water out of a hose for at least 5 min, and until the water runs clear. Then I'll take out all aerators, and and run the system with all cold water faucets on.


If that doesn't help, I might read more about Nu-Well tablets, and follow their directions to see if it helps.

Other than that, if it still has problems, I'll call in a local well and drilling company, and pay them to do whatever needs fixing.

Thanks, everyone! I'll update on my progress.

Ref: https://terrylove.com/forums/index....ter-after-changing-downpipe.10867/#post-65226\

and many other posts that convinced me that I need a simple fix, or a pro to take care of it... I guess that's why the pros make the big bucks, huh? !!!

:)

Edit: Another post that I liked:

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/nu-well-tablets.24506/


It convinced me that if flushing by pumping water doesn't work, then I'll bring in the pros and let them diagnose and cure my problem. In my area, there is a very reputable well company just down the street that's probably been in business 50+ years, so I guess I'll pay for their knowledge and labor if I need it.

Thanks again, everyone.

Here's what I see in my future:
* PVC hookups...
* flushing,
* and then an update to this forum.

And if it's still not OK, then I'll call the pros!

-Philip
 
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Phil_figuringitout

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I had rust and extensive sediment build-up in my well. Rented a tow-behind air compressor with 200' of hose. Pulled pump and drop-pipe and inserted air hose close to bottom of well and let it rip! Took about 6 cycles for well to get pumped out (lots of fun geysers created) and refill but end result was a very clear casing and massively improve flow.
 

Valveman

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I had rust and extensive sediment build-up in my well. Rented a tow-behind air compressor with 200' of hose. Pulled pump and drop-pipe and inserted air hose close to bottom of well and let it rip! Took about 6 cycles for well to get pumped out (lots of fun geysers created) and refill but end result was a very clear casing and massively improve flow.

And no pictures? :(
 

pjbMit

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And no pictures? :(
and no movies either?

I've got the popcorn ready!

I take that your well wasn't at the bottom in the middle of your kitchen...

A geyser wouldn't be fun for me... although a diverter pipe might solve the problem... but if flushing by running water doesn't cure this one,
then I'll pay the pros to handle it! :)
 

pjbMit

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Like Reach says a big air compressor is about the only way to clean that up without using acid. When you blow the well the debris will act like sand blast material on the way back up and shines steel casing like a new nickle.

Hooked up pump, plumbed output through window temporarily, and let run for 12 hours straight.

Water is clear, but output is low.

Ordered 1 gal of muriatic acid ( <30% hydrochloric acid).

Plan to use personal protective gear, and put acid down the pipe, let it sit for several hours, neutralize with 2 boxes of baking soda, and then let it run to flush for several hours.

Obviously acid requires caution re: clothing, rubber boots, rubber gloves, eye protection and respirator. I've got that part covered.

Any other advice?
 
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Valveman

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Acid will dilute quickly. Especially since you need to chase it with enough water to displace what is in the casing. The acid needs to be forced through the perforations. Don't use baking soda. Just pump it out until it is diluted completely.
 

pjbMit

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Here's quite the sobering read....


upload_2019-8-28_12-23-44.png



https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/face/stateface/mi/01mi061.html

The moral of the story... these are serious issues that require careful handling, planning and some knowledge.

I'm starting with 1/4 cup of muriatic acid, poured slowly into the well, while wearing a respirator, rubber boots, long rubber gloves and safety goggles.
 

pjbMit

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Acid will dilute quickly. Especially since you need to chase it with enough water to displace what is in the casing. The acid needs to be forced through the perforations. Don't use baking soda. Just pump it out until it is diluted completely.
Thank you for the info.

I won't dilute the acid, but I will use extreme caution, and all of the protective equipment.

1/2 cup and I'll let it sit for at least 1 hr. Slow. Cautious. Cautious and deliberate are my plans. I may not get it right, or get it on the first try, but I will be careful... that's most important. I do have another water source and hose so I can apply water, but I think I'll let gravity handle disbursing the acid, plus maybe some gentle water.

I'd rather err on the side of not being effective, then end up ill or worse!


I have a shallow well with a 1.25" galvanized pipe attached to a "sand point"... if I have my terminology correct. So all I have is the single pipe, with a head and screen at the very end, and a 3/4 hp Goulds jet pump on the ground at the bottom of a 6 ft deep enclosed well pit with cement walls and a dirt floor.

I don't plan to try forcing any water through it, as I didn't see much movement when I put a hose down the well pipe and ran water. So, I know that this will be more of a finesse job... at least that's my impression.
 
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Reach4

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How about you staying above ground, and feeding the HCl via a tube? Set the ventilation flow to keep your nose and eyes upwind. A filter respirator will not help; you would need a tank respirator.

1.5 inch pipe has a volume of 10.6 gallons per 100 ft. So you will not need a lot of volume to chase the HCl thru the perforations. After the first part of the chase water, maybe go slow to let the HCl work through slowly.

Nu-well 100 is safer and made for the purpose.
 
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