Rough in drain cluster#@**!help

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Roadman33

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hi guys,
I pulled a permit to make my basement bath up to code and need some help.
yellow line: 2" goes down to slab then into 3". (think this is vent for toilet?)
pink line: 2" goes in to mechanical room p trap for hot water heater overflow & furnace cond. drain. drains down into slab w/cleanout.

I want to add bath lav sink in blue and on other side of wall (green) bar sink... these are very close together

I was thinking this was a place were Terry's method of adding a double vanity when drain is of to one side would work?
 

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Roadman33

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Without mark up.
 

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Roadman33

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How about an additional picture without the markings so we can see what is there?
Added. Thanks Terry.

I'm in Bham,wa so think UPC.

Was thinking Y fitting on 2" pipe will work. One way drains mechanical room, other drains lav sink and bar sink. Then run new 1.5" vent loop for bar sink vent.

Don't know if lav and bar sink can share that 2" drain or if I need to have bar sink drain into T alone then run a separate lav drain above it?
 

wwhitney

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In that first picture, it looks like that left hand horizontal drain goes to a p-trap (for a lav ?) and has another pipe from behind the wall connecting into the trap arm (to the existing bar sink?). Is that correct?

And the p-trap in the mechanical room, that relies on the 2" stack for its vent?

The flat 2" san-tee with the cleanout should be a combo. So I'd think you'd want to demo that out and everything upstream. Then you could put two san-tees or a double fixture fitting in the stud bay on the far left of the first picture, for the lav and the bar sink. Then you'd need to get a single 1-1/2" drain over to the 2" stack, and a 1-1/2" vent over to revent. If you want to, you could remove the short section of 1-1/2" vent and replace it with 2" vent, although that's not required.

Cheers, Wayne
 

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In that first picture, it looks like that left hand horizontal drain goes to a p-trap (for a lav ?) and has another pipe from behind the wall connecting into the trap arm (to the existing bar sink?). Is that correct?

And the p-trap in the mechanical room, that relies on the 2" stack for its vent?

The flat 2" san-tee with the cleanout should be a combo. So I'd think you'd want to demo that out and everything upstream. Then you could put two san-tees or a double fixture fitting in the stud bay on the far left of the first picture, for the lav and the bar sink. Then you'd need to get a single 1-1/2" drain over to the 2" stack, and a 1-1/2" vent over to revent. If you want to, you could remove the short section of 1-1/2" vent and replace it with 2" vent, although that's not required.

Cheers, Wayne
Yes you're correct, and yes mechanical room ptrap uses the 2" as a vent.

Added a picture of what I think will pass code for bar sink and lav. Except my set-up would have double long sweep T going into stack.

So 2" combo fitting for mechanical room ptrap and bar sink - 1.5" vent added for bar sink above counter height-. And then okay to add 1.5" straight to 2" drain for lav? Also need to have clean our below all this?
 

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wwhitney

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I'm suggesting the layout below. All the tees can be san-tees; the only drainage tee that can be a combo or wye is where the lav/bar sink branch drain hits the 2" stack.

The vertical order of the three connections to the 2" drain (utility room, lav/bar sink branch drain, and cleanout) doesn't matter. The lav/bar could be a double fixture fitting, but I don't think they exist in 1.5", so it would just be a double san-tee. In which case it would be a good idea to install a cleanout above or below it, since it's hard to snake into a double san-tee and come out the bottom instead of the opposite side.

The other option for the lav/bar sink is to have parallel 1.5" vertical sections and separate single san-tees (no cleanout required). That would let you set the height of the san-tees separately. The vents would recombine at least 6" above both sink flood rims, and the drains would recombine on the horizontal with an upright combo (or there are other ways to do that). Unfortunately, the UPC doesn't allow you to stack two 1.5" san tees for venting, as any vertical wet venting has to be at least 2". And since you have to go through framing, I don't think it's worth upsizing the drain to 2", as 1.5" is a lot easier to pass through studs.

Cheers, Wayne

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I'm suggesting the layout below. All the tees can be san-tees; the only drainage tee that can be a combo or wye is where the lav/bar sink branch drain hits the 2" stack.

The vertical order of the three connections to the 2" drain (utility room, lav/bar sink branch drain, and cleanout) doesn't matter. The lav/bar could be a double fixture fitting, but I don't think they exist in 1.5", so it would just be a double san-tee. In which case it would be a good idea to install a cleanout above or below it, since it's hard to snake into a double san-tee and come out the bottom instead of the opposite side.

The other option for the lav/bar sink is to have parallel 1.5" vertical sections and separate single san-tees (no cleanout required). That would let you set the height of the san-tees separately. The vents would recombine at least 6" above both sink flood rims, and the drains would recombine on the horizontal with an upright combo (or there are other ways to do that). Unfortunately, the UPC doesn't allow you to stack two 1.5" san tees for venting, as any vertical wet venting has to be at least 2". And since you have to go through framing, I don't think it's worth upsizing the drain to 2", as 1.5" is a lot easier to pass through studs.

Cheers, Wayne

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thank you Wayne,
i will take your recommendation with back to back set up. only one quick question: will it pass inspection if i leave cleanout on the bottom of all that? it is currently at the bottom of 2" that everything is draining into facing the wrong way and covered with drywall!
 

wwhitney

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Are you going to run the new horizontal drain and vent I drew in blue through the studs or outside of the wall? That triple stud may be a post that you don't want to drill through, does it have a beam above it?

Either way, the existing cleanout has to come out, because the flat san-tee that it goes into is the wrong fitting, it would need to be a combo. [And I'm not even sure if a cleanout is required, I'm not so familiar with those rules, but since there is one, might as well put it back.] The new cleanout can be above, below, or in between the two horizontal drains coming in, as I mentioned the vertical order there doesn't matter.

Cheers, Wayne
 

wwhitney

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Whoops, I realized there's a problem with my drawing, I got confused between the UPC and IPC. The UPC only allows 1 DFU on a horizontal 1-1/2" drain. So the new horizontal drain has to be 2". That means there's no particular reason not to stack the san-tees instead of using a double san-tee, and you wouldn't need a cleanout there. It also means it would be good to run the horizontal drain outside the wall, that triple stud must be there for a reason.

I'll update my drawing and post it shortly.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Roadman33

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Thanks Wayne,
Not sure about going through those studs? It is a load bearing wall and i'm (I don't think Im allowed??to drill through more than 2 even with stud shoes?) saying that how can i install vent cause i would have to drill through those same 3 studs for that 1 1/2" vent?
 

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Whoops, I realized there's a problem with my drawing, I got confused between the UPC and IPC. The UPC only allows 1 DFU on a horizontal 1-1/2" drain. So the new horizontal drain has to be 2". That means there's no particular reason not to stack the san-tees instead of using a double san-tee, and you wouldn't need a cleanout there. It also means it would be good to run the horizontal drain outside the wall, that triple stud must be there for a reason.

I'll update my drawing and post it shortly.

Cheers, Wayne
Thanks Wayne,
Not sure about going through those studs? It is a load bearing wall and i'm (I don't think Im allowed??to drill through more than 2 even with stud shoes?) saying that how can i install vent cause i would have to drill through those same 3 studs for that 1 1/2" vent?
 

wwhitney

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Various imperfect options:

(a) Squeeze the san-tees into the narrow bay between the triple and the single stud, double that stud on the other side, and just drill through it for both the drain and vent (use double stud shoes). Trap arms travel around the triple stud outside of the wall. Check the trap arm length, UPC limits 1-1/2" trap arm to 42".

(b) Jog the drain out of the wall as previously, hopefully hidden inside a cabinet. For the vent, jog out of the wall just below the ceiling, then box it in as a soffit.

(c) Is there a beam above the triple stud, and if so which side(s) of the triple is it on? Maybe you could go through the top plate with the vent, and depending on the floor framing above, jog a couple feet away from the wall, drill through a joist or two, and jog back to the existing vent.

(d) Install surface mount medicine cabinet over lavatory, make exterior 3" taller than interior with hidden compartment to jog the vent around the post. Drilling one stud for a 1-1/2" pipe is fine with a stud shoe.

(e) Move both san-tees outside the wall into a cabinet on one side, just to far side of the triple stud. In the top san-tee, put a street 45 to start crossing over triple stud. (45 degrees from vertical is still considered vertical, so that's OK to do below the sink flood rim). Jog into the wall once it's crossed. It would need to be below counter height, so if it's close, rotate both san-tees to be on a 45 angle.

(f) Same as (a) but the san-tees are outside the wall hidden in a cabinet, so you don't have to drill.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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Roadman33

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Various imperfect options:

(a) Squeeze the san-tees into the narrow bay between the triple and the single stud, double that stud on the other side, and just drill through it for both the drain and vent (use double stud shoes). Trap arms travel around the triple stud outside of the wall. Check the trap arm length, UPC limits 1-1/2" trap arm to 42".

(b) Jog the drain out of the wall as previously, hopefully hidden inside a cabinet. For the vent, jog out of the wall just below the ceiling, then box it in as a soffit.

(c) Is there a beam above the triple stud, and if so which side(s) of the triple is it on? Maybe you could go through the top plate with the vent, and depending on the floor framing above, jog a couple feet away from the wall, drill through a joist or two, and jog back to the existing vent.

(d) Install surface mount medicine cabinet over lavatory, make exterior 3" taller than interior with hidden compartment to jog the vent around the post. Drilling one stud for a 1-1/2" pipe is fine with a stud shoe.

(e) Move both san-tees outside the wall into a cabinet on one side, just to far side of the triple stud. In the top san-tee, put a street 45 to start crossing over triple stud. (45 degrees from vertical is still considered vertical, so that's OK to do below the sink flood rim). Jog into the wall once it's crossed. It would need to be below counter height, so if it's close, rotate both san-tees to be on a 45 angle.

(f) Same as (a) but the san-tees are outside the wall hidden in a cabinet, so you don't have to drill.

Cheers, Wayne
Wow, mind blown... very cool. will "pick my poison" so to speak and make it work with one of these. I'll post up some pics when its done and passed inspection. thank you again.
 
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