Roots growing into septic tank

[KineticoUser]

How about placing a box over the pipe, allowing an air gap between the dirt and the pipe? Would that be helpful?

 

[KineticoUser]

Also, since the problem is beyond the septic tank, I figure it has to do with the seepage pits. With seepage pits being a hole with blocks loosely fitted around the outside and a concrete cap placed on top, how do roots affect seepage pits, and what is the best way to prevent and/or treat root problems in seepage pits?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Smooky]

Also, since the problem is beyond the septic tank, I figure it has to do with the seepage pits. With seepage pits being a hole with blocks loosely fitted around the outside and a concrete cap placed on top, how do roots affect seepage pits, and what is the best way to prevent and/or treat root problems in seepage pits?

Onsite wastewater regulations in California are not uniform across the State. Since the regulations are different all across your state, I have no idea what type of system you have. We don’t do seepage pits here in NC so I don’t have experience with how they work. I would think copper sulphate would help prevent roots; many people do use it as suggested to prevent roots in septic systems.

I would not put a box over the pipe as you suggest, you could, I don’t think will hurt anything, but I wouldn’t do it.

Have you determined where the problem is located? Is the water level rising above the tank outlet? If the water level is rising above the outlet, then your problem is out in the drainfield or seepage pit as it may be. Your problem may or may not be from roots. It could be for several reasons. It may be under sized for the current flow. Leaks such as a constantly running toilet etc. can cause a system to fail. There could be a buildup of what is called a bio-mat. This bio-mat will clog up the soil over time. Too much grease in the system can cause the same problem. The system may have been undersized. If the system was put in too deep and it is raining a lot, that will cause it to fail too.

I’m guessing that a seepage pit is 4-6 foot across with a row of blocks turned on their side to allow liquid to flow out into the soil. If that is what you got then I would think you don’t have a very large absorption area. I’m guessing your absorption area is 25-50 square feet. Most systems around here have an absorption area of 400 to over 800 square feet.

 

[JRC3]

It's been 4 years. They said a 1200 gallon tank should last a good 10-12 years with only one person living in the house...I stuck a stick into the septic and I encountered no solids. The issue is the roots, not the septic, though I may have to pump the septic to lower the water level so I can do the repair.

Leaks such as a constantly running toilet etc. can cause a system to fail. There could be a buildup of what is called a bio-mat. This bio-mat will clog up the soil over time. Too much grease in the system can cause the same problem.

I'm curious of the output baffle. Is it doing it's job? Has it always done it's job? I would pull the access cover and see what's going on with the baffle and the scum level in the second compartment. KU, which side did you stick the stick in? The output side has the lowest sludge and doesn't indicate what's in the first chamber. Depending on the depth of your output baffle, it could also be drawing sludge or other solids into the drainfield. Things like hair and lint may not show up in the sludge, but may make it's way through to the drainfield. An effluent filter and proper cleaning is a good bet.

 

[KineticoUser]

I appreciate the feedback. Here is a picture so you can see the type of curved block that lines my seepage pits. https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnhFeJX0YorirQvRacAoeRQzzw2z You can see the juniper I planted by the first seepage pit is much larger than the other ones down the driveway. Based on what you wrote, I'm sensing it probably would be worthwhile to dig down to my 3rd seepage pit first, rather than the first one, just to see whether any water is filling that pit. If it is low or dry, I'll backtrack and address the other two to see if the problem is roots, rather than saturation. My pits are 5' in diameter and about 20' deep. The county inspector wouldn't allow leach fields based on the sloping terrain and makeup of the soil(?). I'm pretty much sitting on rock, with some clay. There isn't a whole lot of percolation going on, but I definitely have more than 50 square feet of absorption area. Other than the small amount of oils that rinse off in the kitchen sink and shower, no grease is added to this system. There is very little fat in my diet. I'm not into fried foods. "If the system was put in too deep and it is raining a lot, that will cause it to fail too." You made me laugh. This is Southern California... we've been in a drought for many years. Is there a way to chemically undo the bio-mat? Maybe there are some enzymes I can pour into the pits to eat away at the bio-mat... or maybe just flush down a toilet on a regular basis.

I only experienced the slight backup once, while my son was visiting, and haven't seen any problems since then (though the water in my septic tank is a few inches above the output pipe). I can probably get by for years on what I have, but maybe I could put in a non-permitted leach field in front of my house. https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnhFeJX0YorirQzyv4sPeEbuJEYP The septic tank is on the left side. I could always tee off from the 4" drain line and send the extra to this leach field. From what I understand, the county has added many new complications to putting in leach fields (requiring monitoring devices and such), so I'm reluctant to go the permit way, though I would want it to be up to functional standards without the legal costs and headaches. If I just need a little supplement I could use this area. I may have to use dynamite to make the hole, like I did for the septic tank, but it could be an option. What are your thoughts?

As far as the septic tank goes, the output baffle has always done it's job. I put the stick on both sides and didn't see any difference. I don't see an effluent filter as being cost effective, considering my situation. Actually, if a filter can just be placed into the 4" tee at the output, it may be worthwhile... maybe something like this: http://tgwastewater.com/residential-series-effluent-filter-ef-4?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=ZABEL 4" w/o baffle&gclid=CMTvyLjy6c8CFZCcfgodmiQGgQ
What are your thoughts?

 

[KineticoUser]

Enzyme options:
SepticSeep/Mega Bio http://www.septicseep.com/mega-bio.htm
NT-Max http://www.newtechbio.com/
BioMat-X https://www.rex-bac-t.com/p-22-biomat-x-ultimate-septic-system-shock-kit.aspx
Bio-Safe One http://www.biosafeone.com/bio112.html
Septiblast http://www.septictankcleaner.net/

Any thoughts or added suggestions?

 

[JRC3]

"An effluent filter and proper cleaning is a good bet."

Btw, I didn't mean clean the drain field or tank or anything...I meant clean the filter annually or whenever needed. But a cleaning of the tank and drainfield is probably a good idea. I remember reading about the drainfield cleaners before and remember that many don't work as stated, but some work well. I wanna say they were a little pricey though.

 

[KineticoUser]

My concern when it comes to placing a filter in the tee at my output is regarding the removal of the filter. If I pull the filter out, whatever has caught on the filter will come off as I pull it out of the tee, and then whatever was caught will just be sent down the output line as the water rushes out. It hardly seems worthwhile to catch the debris if it just ends up being washed down my output. How do you prevent whatever was caught from being washed down the output?

I understand many of the drainfield cleaners don't work, and they are pricey, but which ones are worth the money? They run about $250 - $380. I don't mind paying the money if I can get another 25 years of use out of it.

Tomorrow, I'll jackhammer down to the #3 cleanout. If water rushes out, then my system is saturated, and I'll need to try a cleaner. If the level is low, then I need to backtrack and see where the blockage is. Hopefully, the problem is some sort of blockage. If I can't find a problem at any of the seepage pits, I'll have to rent a 200' camera cable to discover where the blockage might be. They rent from Home Depot for $137 for 4 hours or $195 per day. I'll also check the other local rental yards if one is needed.

 

[KineticoUser]

I have great news and not so great news.

First the great news: My 3rd seepage pit, which extends 24' down below the cleanout, is bone dry.

The not so great news: I have yet to locate the blockage... but I don't have much more than 300' of pipe to explore, along with 2 other seepage pits. Anyone care to join me in digging?

 

[Reach4]

Before thinking about the 300 ft of pipe, you need to get into that second pit. Was that second pit sucked out 4 years ago?

Are these actually 3 chambers in the same big box, or is there some distance between pits?

 

[KineticoUser]

Before thinking about the 300 ft of pipe, you need to get into that second pit. Was that second pit sucked out 4 years ago?

Are these actually 3 chambers in the same big box, or is there some distance between pits?

I think you are picturing a septic tank rather than seepage pits. They are a distance from each other. I've never heard of people pumping their seepage pits, as there shouldn't be any solids in them. I'm digging down to pit #2 now.

 

[Reach4]

I think you are picturing a septic tank rather than seepage pits.

You are right. So a seepage pit is not intended to be waterproof I guess. That's where your root mass is going to be, if there is plastic pipe between pits.

If you find a root mass, maybe you could leave a PVC pipe or two from the surface so that you can replenish your root killers without re-digging.

 

[KineticoUser]

The last thing you want is a waterproof seepage pit. That's like putting a leach field over a concrete basin.

OK, here is my update. It sure would have been nice had I remembered the tree over the hill I measured from was only 1' tall 25 years ago. Measuring without considering the slope, I was off by 4'. That's no fun when you are digging down 30" by hand. I finally figured this out and found the cleanout. They couldn't drill very deep for this pit, so the bottom is only 13 1/2' from the cleanout, and it is dry as a bone. At least I'm narrowing down the problem area. #3 is 130' from #2, but #2 is only 20' from #1. The problem probably lies in the input or output of #1 or the input of #2... unless #1 is dry, also, making the obstruction between the septic tank and #1. Are we having fun yet?

 

[KineticoUser]

It's getting too dark to do any more work, so I'll give you my progress so far. My guess was off by 6' for pit #1. Luckily, I only had to go down 14". When I opened the cleanout, I saw the water sitting about 18" below the output line. I looked at the output of the septic tank, and the level is sitting just at the top of the 4" output. Obviously, there is some blockage, as it would be at the bottom of the 4" output if it was flowing freely. The question is where is the blockage. I sense it is somewhere between the septic tank output and the input of pit #1. Do you recommend I rent a drain camera, or is there a less costly method? I don't want to just root out the line without fixing whatever the problem might be, so I'd need to know exactly where the problem is. As the crow flies, it is 144' from the septic tank to pit #1. What do you recommend?

 

[KineticoUser]

Might some type of root treatment poured into pit #1 fix my problem without limiting the pit's ability to drain? I wouldn't want to use anything that might seal the pores in the ground. What would you recommend?

 

[CountryBumkin]

Now that you narrowed down the location of the problem, this seems like a good time to "root out" the line. I think that would fix the problem for another 20 years - and you could add some "root preventer" if that adds extra confidence.

 

[KineticoUser]

Before I do any rooting, I think I'll locate where the pipes enter and exit the seepage pits and see if roots are growing there. That would allow me to redo the hydraulic cement in those areas, also. I want to do my best to have it last 30 years, not just 20. This is not something I want to do again.

I can put copper sulphate around the inputs and outputs, but what other root treatments would you recommend? What would you recommend to locate and fix any potential mid-line roots?

 

[DonL]

I can put copper sulphate around the inputs and outputs, but what other root treatments would you recommend? What would you recommend to locate and fix any potential mid-line roots?

It works. All you have to do is flush it down the toilet. It will kill all root on your system. It takes time for the roots to rot.

It may kill your bush. You can plant another in a better place if it does.

Good Luck.

 

[KineticoUser]

How much copper sulfate should I flush down the toilet? Are no other additives recommended?

 

[KineticoUser]

Actually it makes more sense to either add the copper sulfate to the septic tank output or directly to pit #1 cleanout, so it doesn't just sit in the septic tank. I'm not sure there is enough flow to send the CS to the roots. What do you recommend?