Rheem 42V75F and Bradford White M-I-75S6BN NG Water Heaters

[Jadnashua]

FWIW, where I live, a tempering valve is not optional...it will not pass an inspection unless there's one installed. Now, that doesn't mean it has to actually be adjusted to cool things down, and the better ones are essentially pass-through when at or below the set point, but they do allow you to set the tank hotter and still be safe. Having one installed also lets you make the tank look bigger if you have a house full of visitors for the weekend. This has nothing to do with anti-scald valves at the shower...those just prevent a hot surge caused by a momentary drop in the cold water pressure. It's not uncommon for someone to flip the valve to max hot, and wash their hands, and it could easily get WAY too hot before you finish...this is more the reason for limiting the max water out of the tap, not a bathing issue.

Today's shower valves have two functions (they are not always set correctly, though)...the anti-scald function you cannot turn off, and a mechanical temp limiter you set up based on your current water temps. Unfortunately, that can change a bunch between winter/summer - the hot supply will likely be the same, but the mix with the incoming cold can make it way off in one season or the other, or you live with it technically, out of code.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

no offence meant here jadnashua.....
but they seem extremely anal up in New England if it is
mandatory to install a tempering valve on a common resideintial
water heater.... anti siphon valve on heaters and tempering valves seem
like extreme over-kill to me

I would assume that the tempering valve used to meet code is probably
some in-expensive watts unit that is actually installed more for looks
than long term functionality.....

 

[Sponsor]

 

[DonL]

no offence meant here jadnashua.....
but they seem extremely anal up in New England if it is
mandatory to install a tempering valve on a common resideintial
water heater.... anti siphon valve on heaters and tempering valves seem
like extreme over-kill to me

I would assume that the tempering valve used to meet code is probably
some in-expensive watts unit that is actually installed more for looks
than long term functionality.....

lol

Most people in New England are like those in California, They need the Gov to hold their hand and take their Tax money.

At least they live in safe places, If you do not count bullets.


I would hope that rule is for new installs and not replacements.

 

[Jadnashua]

lol

Most people in New England are like those in California, They need the Gov to hold their hand and take their Tax money.

At least they live in safe places, If you do not count bullets.


I would hope that rule is for new installs and not replacements.

Many people never get a permit to replace their water heater, but it is a requirement most places to ensure it is done right. So, any install that actually gets a permit must have one to pass the requisite inspection afterwards.

NH isn't too bad, but MA, you can't legally even do plumbing in your own home unless you have a license AND, fixtures that you use MUST be on the state approved database to pass as well. Maine and VT aren't anywhere near as strict as MA.

I don't look at the national codes, so do not know if that is in there, which NH tends to follow, but it could be a local amendment (they don't tend to add that many in my city/state).

 

[DonL]

In reality I don't really think it maters if a install is safe or not.

If you pay the permit FEE it will work, And the inspector will be to busy too inspect it properly.


The grandfather clause may get you by in Texas for replacements, But who has a grandfather now a days ?

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Many people never get a permit to replace their water heater, but it is a requirement most places to ensure it is done right. So, any install that actually gets a permit must have one to pass the requisite inspection afterwards.

NH isn't too bad, but MA, you can't legally even do plumbing in your own home unless you have a license AND, fixtures that you use MUST be on the state approved database to pass as well. Maine and VT aren't anywhere near as strict as MA.

I don't look at the national codes, so do not know if that is in there, which NH tends to follow, but it could be a local amendment (they don't tend to add that many in my city/state).

basically the law you are speaking about is a farce and a joke because anyone
can install their own heater without getting a permit...

For safetys sake, the folks in mas. need the government to shut down all hardware
stores where someone could buy a water heater and install it themselves..
or at the very least the govenrment should force folks in the hardware stores
to pay up front a "permit fee" if they are wanting to plumbing in their own home...

 

[Kcodyjr]

they seem extremely anal up in New England

Yes. Oh, you were talking about the codes? Yeah, that too.

I can't claim to know for sure, but I believe the requirement only applies if the tank is kept above 120... which, even if set at 120, won't hold the water at or below 120. So, it depends how uptight the local inspector wants to be. I'd expect any ASSE 1017 compliant valve would do, including the cheap Watts.

By the way, Watts is headquartered in Andover, MA. Coincidence? Doubt it.

 

[Jadnashua]

I can do lots of plumbing things, but in MA, that doesn't mean I can do them legally (nor can I do them in my condo in NH, but could if it was a single family dwelling). Lots of things get done without a permit, but that does not mean it is legal. Should you have a problem, it can come back to bite you in the end if done without one. Many places, you can buy two handle shower valves, but it hasn't been legal to install a simple one without anti-scald tech for ages.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

In reality MA is no different than anywhere else...its all a joke .

just like everywhere else in the country....
they have loopholes in the law that grants anyone the right
to go to any hardware store and buy plumbing supplies....


The plumber is the only one who gets penalized because
if the plumber goes by the exact letter of the law
and comes out and estimates a job , it will be substantially higher
than some home-owner could install a water heater for....

plumbing permit, thermal expansion tank, anti-siphon valve, and anti scald valve
all three are things that are never sold or mentioned in hardware stores
to DIYers ..... they are not forced to buy them or take out a permit


nothing new here ust more of the same rhetoric

 

[DonL]

I know a lot of them Rules are put in by HOA's, Insurance companies and banks.

A permit is just a paper trail to insure everyone gets their money.


To top it off, You get to pay more property Tax, Because your home has a documented improvement.

 

[Jadnashua]

FWIW, my local HD has (had?) a sign up in the area with the WH stating the local code requirements. Now, whether anyone actually abides by them, is another thing. In theory, not always in practice, a permit and inspection ensure when the job is completed, it is safe and functional.

 

[JerryR]

At the risk of showing my stupidity, how is that any different from mixing in cold water at the faucet? ( other than of course at faucet one could turn cold water off first). It just seems like the heat losses throughout the lines would come into play more if the temp is reduced to 120 degrees versus the full temp at the start. Mine is currently running around 140 degrees give or take. Appreciate the input. Contractors usually love me after I read things for a while.. just enough knowledge to irritate probably but then I have learned many who do this stuff for a professional living don't know as much as they should!

From first hand experience, my 50 gallon water heater at my prior home, set at 120 dF would just run out of hot water filling a garden tub. I cranked up the temp to 140 dF and there was no problem filling the tub.

I have an 8 year old grandson who loves to take baths. I have the WH set to 140 dF and I installed a tempering valve and set it to 115 dF heater output to prevent scalding. No more issues with running out if hot water.

Yes , adults should be smart enough to test water before getting in but children can't be trusted.

Besides, our dog will jump into the tub if she hears it running, as she loves it.

JR