Reverse Osmosis vs. Water Filtration System

[PJay]

Hi,

I was hoping some of you kind folks could offer a little advice to help me choose between the above two options for an under-counter drinking water system in our kitchen. After doing some research I am still not sure which would be best. The city's water quality results are listed below for a reference.

My plumber doesn't install water filtration systems and RO units very often. He thought the former would be fine. He wasn't familiar with a permeate pump or if it could be used with the Aqua Pure units he installs. There is a chemical feed pump on the AP site. Is that the same as a permeate pump?

Are any of you familiar with the AP units? His supplier may have other brands as well. So, if there are other units you prefer, please let me know which ones and why you like them.

A salesman at a local plumbing supply shop wasn't too familiar with permeate pumps. He didn't think an RO unit was needed because the city supplies our water. He felt the DWS 1000 would do the job and said he only recommends RO units for customers with well water.

We currently use bottled water and were hoping to switch to an under-counter unit to cut down on the amount of plastic we have to recycle, yet still have high quality drinking water.

I was also thinking of having the plumber install a whole house filter where the water enters the house. He said that wouldn't be a problem and thought it would help for showers, etc. He didn't mention what brand he uses, but I am guessing it would also be an AP product.

Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated.

Thank You!
PJ


Compound Average Range

Arsenic (ppb) 0.95 0.83 – 1.07 ,

Barium (ppm) 0.0011 0.011 – 0.012 ,

Chlorine (ppm) 1.12 0.01 – 3.4 ,

Fluoride (ppm) 0.88 0.68 – 1.02 ,

Maganese (ppb) 7.48 0.54 – 123 ,

Nitrate (ppm) 0.27 0.27 ,

Tetrachloroethylene (ppb) 0.61 0.51 – 0.71 ,

Selenium (ppb) 1.11 1.05 – 1.17 ,

Sodium (ppm) 101 91.7 – 101 ,

Total Trihalomethanes (ppb) 55.8 7.1 – 64.0 ,

Haloacetic Acids 5 (ppb) 9.6 2.2 – 14.2 ,

Total Coliform 3.0% 3.0% .


90% Value Action Level

Lead 8.7ppb 15ppb .


Copper 0.12ppm 1.3ppm .

 

[Reach4]

Total Coliform 3.0% 3.0% .

I don't know what 3% means -- maybe 3% of the samples grew coiforms?
How do you have any coliform bacteria in chlorinated water?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[PJay]

I don't know what 3% means -- maybe 3% of the samples grew coiforms?
How do you have any coliform bacteria in chlorinated water?

Hi Reach4,

Thanks for your question.

I'm not sure what 3% means, either, or how we have it in chlorinated water. I double checked the report and not only is the percentage correct, but it states that amount is not a violation. The report also lists the coliform range from ND-3.0, an MCL of 5%, an MCLG of 0 and describes coliform as a compound naturally present in the environment.

I hope that helps,
PJ

 

[hj]

Filters only remove certain materials from the water, and have to be changed when they reach their capacity. RO units remove basically EVERYTHING from the water and leave pure H2O.

 

[Reach4]

I don't have an RO, but I have considered it. Some comments from what I have learned:
1. Get one with a permeate pump. It is more efficient and gets more life out of the membrane. If your water pressure is low, then an an electric booster pump is also warranted.
2. The filters last longer when fed with soft water. You did not post your hardness, but if you get a softener, feed the RO unit with softened water.
3. The tank refill times can be long. With more people, consider a larger storage tank.
4. Don't run the RO water though metal pipe. Like distilled water, it is surprisingly more reactive than your average tap water. So feed that ice maker with polyethylene.
5. For better tasting drinking, and arguably better-for-you drinking, consider a Remineralization filter. This puts some calcium and magnesium back into the water.
6. If you have a basement, the RO system could be located below the kitchen sink rather than inside the sink cabinet.

 

[Jadnashua]

RO water has no 'taste', and I generally find it objectionable. Very few filters will take out heavy metals, and on some, if they do and you don't change them, can actually put some into the water as it passes through.

Pure water is a very rare thing...we evolved without it. Organic compounds and heavy metals can be a health issue, and there will always be some controversy over what levels are safe. A water softener will remove some stuff in addition to the stuff normally associated with 'hardness' by tweaking what is in the tank.

Any public water system serving more than a few houses must meet minimum safety standards, so what is coming into the house IS safe, or the people supplying it are breaking lots of rules and regulations and can be taken to task for it. They are also required to test very frequently to ensure that they catch any problems before it gets serious.

If you just need the water to taste better to your family, a filter is probably all you need - on a RO setup, you end up wasting some water in the process and the water just tastes 'flat'...filtering it as it goes through, you do not. Both types must be maintained and parts replaced at what can be short intervals depending on your water condition and use.

As mentioned, RO filtered water is quite aggressive. They call water the universal solvent for a reason...it really likes to dissolve most things...obviously some at a much slower rate than others (as in millennia), but most things succumb. Metal fittings and pipes after the water has passed through an RO system are subject to being eroded by the water.

 

[PJay]

Filters only remove certain materials from the water, and have to be changed when they reach their capacity. RO units remove basically EVERYTHING from the water and leave pure H2O.

Thanks HJ,
My plumber mentioned that both types of systems require filter changes, but it was something I could do myself.
PJ

 

[hj]

The RO filters affect the water going TO IT, not the water you drink. IF you have a water softener, and are on a low sodium diet, then an RO unit is almost mandatory. I do not like the taste of softened water, but have never had a problem with RO water. IF you feed your icemaker with RO water the cubes come out crystal clear.

 

[PJay]

I don't have an RO, but I have considered it. Some comments from what I have learned:
1. Get one with a permeate pump. It is more efficient and gets more life out of the membrane. If your water pressure is low, then an an electric booster pump is also warranted.
2. The filters last longer when fed with soft water. You did not post your hardness, but if you get a softener, feed the RO unit with softened water.
3. The tank refill times can be long. With more people, consider a larger storage tank.
4. Don't run the RO water though metal pipe. Like distilled water, it is surprisingly more reactive than your average tap water. So feed that ice maker with polyethylene.
5. For better tasting drinking, and arguably better-for-you drinking, consider a Remineralization filter. This puts some calcium and magnesium back into the water.
6. If you have a basement, the RO system could be located below the kitchen sink rather than inside the sink cabinet.

Hi Reach4,
Thank you for the additional information. All of your comments are really helpful.
I had heard of permeate pumps, but wasn't aware of a possible need of an electric booster pump. The water is soft, so that won't be a problem. A larger storage tank makes sense, but due to our basement layout we would need to keep it inside the cabinet. There is a metal pipe going to the ice maker. It's good to know that it will need to be changed if we go the RO route. I also hadn't heard of remineralization filters, only that some people would manually add minerals to the RO water. The filters seem like a more practical and efficient way of improving RO water quality and taste.
Thanks again,
PJ

 

[Reach4]

RO water without the remineralization would be best for cleaning if that matters. Maybe you could add an extra non-remineralized tap under the sink?

 

[PJay]

RO water has no 'taste', and I generally find it objectionable. Very few filters will take out heavy metals, and on some, if they do and you don't change them, can actually put some into the water as it passes through.

Pure water is a very rare thing...we evolved without it. Organic compounds and heavy metals can be a health issue, and there will always be some controversy over what levels are safe. A water softener will remove some stuff in addition to the stuff normally associated with 'hardness' by tweaking what is in the tank.

Any public water system serving more than a few houses must meet minimum safety standards, so what is coming into the house IS safe, or the people supplying it are breaking lots of rules and regulations and can be taken to task for it. They are also required to test very frequently to ensure that they catch any problems before it gets serious.

If you just need the water to taste better to your family, a filter is probably all you need - on a RO setup, you end up wasting some water in the process and the water just tastes 'flat'...filtering it as it goes through, you do not. Both types must be maintained and parts replaced at what can be short intervals depending on your water condition and use.

As mentioned, RO filtered water is quite aggressive. They call water the universal solvent for a reason...it really likes to dissolve most things...obviously some at a much slower rate than others (as in millennia), but most things succumb. Metal fittings and pipes after the water has passed through an RO system are subject to being eroded by the water.

Thanks Jadnashua,

You brought up some really good points. I have tasted RO water in the past and it also seemed flat to me. I don't think any minerals were added to it. Either way, that was a definite "con", along with the waste factor. A person I know who owns one sited the major "pro" as the purest water he could get.

We're hoping to improve both taste and water quality, which I feel we can achieve to varying degrees using either method. Choosing which one will be best for us is going to be the tricky part. You folks are helping us make the choice easier by providing a wealth of information.

PJ

 

[PJay]

The RO filters affect the water going TO IT, not the water you drink. IF you have a water softener, and are on a low sodium diet, then an RO unit is almost mandatory. I do not like the taste of softened water, but have never had a problem with RO water. IF you feed your icemaker with RO water the cubes come out crystal clear.

Hi HJ,
Thanks for the additional info. I forgot to mention in my reply to Jadnashua that our tap water doesn't have the greatest taste. It's part of the reason we currently drink bottled water. That's why I think either system will improve our tap water.
PJ

 

[PJay]

RO water without the remineralization would be best for cleaning if that matters. Maybe you could add an extra non-remineralized tap under the sink?

Thanks Reach4,
I'll run that by our plumber if we take the RO route.
PJ

 

[Atomic1]

I just got a culligan RO unit about four months ago and I'm on well water that had crazy high dissolved solids and a bunch of neighbors who have truegreen contaminate our water supply.... The RO water doesnt taste flat, however, it is reactive. For example, if i leave it in my stainless steel water bottle for a day, the water will taste metallic. In lieu of an RO filter, consider the use of a nanofiltration filter. It doesnt take as much stuff out. This may be a good balance of filtration for city water.

 

[Reach4]

The RO water doesnt taste flat, however, it is reactive. For example, if i leave it in my stainless steel water bottle for a day, the water will taste metallic.

Some RO units make the last stage a "remineralization" stage. Alternatively, I am confident that you could find a powder or pill that could be added to your water jug to put the calcium and magnesium back in. That makes for better drinking.

Not having the remineralization makes for great cleaning. Rinse your glasses with it, and don't dry. It will dry spot-free, and of course lint-free.

Maybe consider a glass water jug. I expect many plastics are good for the job and have that unbreakable thing going.

 

[Jadnashua]

RO water is about as close to distilled water as you can get without actually performing distillation. We can taste the stuff in water, but pure water essentially has no taste. Now, depending on the unit, it may not be functioning 100%, so could leave some minerals left in it. Or, it could have a function that adds some after the initial filtering. Cartridge filters, depending on their design and age, only remove some things, but typically, can't remove everything. Some work best at heavy metals, some can remove pathogens, some work well at removing various organic chemicals, some remove particles, etc. Depending on what you start with, you can select a filter that achieves your desired results. It may take more than one in series.

 

[NDL]

Hi,

I was hoping some of you kind folks could offer a little advice to help me choose between the above two options for an under-counter drinking water system in our kitchen. After doing some research I am still not sure which would be best. The city's water quality results are listed below for a reference.

My plumber doesn't install water filtration systems and RO units very often. He thought the former would be fine. He wasn't familiar with a permeate pump or if it could be used with the Aqua Pure units he installs. There is a chemical feed pump on the AP site. Is that the same as a permeate pump?

Are any of you familiar with the AP units? His supplier may have other brands as well. So, if there are other units you prefer, please let me know which ones and why you like them.

A salesman at a local plumbing supply shop wasn't too familiar with permeate pumps. He didn't think an RO unit was needed because the city supplies our water. He felt the DWS 1000 would do the job and said he only recommends RO units for customers with well water.

We currently use bottled water and were hoping to switch to an under-counter unit to cut down on the amount of plastic we have to recycle, yet still have high quality drinking water.

I was also thinking of having the plumber install a whole house filter where the water enters the house. He said that wouldn't be a problem and thought it would help for showers, etc. He didn't mention what brand he uses, but I am guessing it would also be an AP product.

Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated.

Thank You!
PJ


Compound Average Range

Arsenic (ppb) 0.95 0.83 – 1.07 ,

Barium (ppm) 0.0011 0.011 – 0.012 ,

Chlorine (ppm) 1.12 0.01 – 3.4 ,

Fluoride (ppm) 0.88 0.68 – 1.02 ,

Maganese (ppb) 7.48 0.54 – 123 ,

Nitrate (ppm) 0.27 0.27 ,

Tetrachloroethylene (ppb) 0.61 0.51 – 0.71 ,

Selenium (ppb) 1.11 1.05 – 1.17 ,

Sodium (ppm) 101 91.7 – 101 ,

Total Trihalomethanes (ppb) 55.8 7.1 – 64.0 ,

Haloacetic Acids 5 (ppb) 9.6 2.2 – 14.2 ,

Total Coliform 3.0% 3.0% .


90% Value Action Level

Lead 8.7ppb 15ppb .


Copper 0.12ppm 1.3ppm .

I am assuming that you're on City water (as opposed to having your own well)?

If so, I don't know why you'd need a permeate pump (?) Is your water pressure low?

***
I installed an RO unit at my home, and I am a DIY'er. No pump. The total install - first time ever - ran around 2-2.5 hrs, and I took my time.

Do know that RO systems remove everything, including minerals, so the end product is water that's very soft. As for taste, we found it good, as did our house guests. The nice thing about RO, is that it removes metals from the water, which tend to flavor the water in a way that can be unpleasant.