Resin in Water

[Dude051]

Hello All,

I have been visiting the forums for a long while and within the last year I purchased a Fleck 7000sxt 48,000 Grain system from an online site. Everything went great with the install but I have been plagued with three issues, which I think may be all be related in some way. Thanks to the forums, I think I have tried everything to troubleshoot this, so I am looking to reach out for some help here.

1. The metering function does not work anymore, I can get it to work for about one week until it goes through a cycle.
2. The connection between the Fleck valve and the bypass leaks very slightly.
3. I get constant small amounts, which add up over time, of resin in my water line which clogs my washing machine the most.

I pulled the distributor tube and checked the basket and line and found no damage. I checked the meter, and I can force it to work by waving a magnet against it. I bypassed the unit again and pulled the turbine out to verify there is no damage there. I cleaned the valve exit, waved the turbine on the meter reader and it read it fine.

The only reasoning I can come to, is that somehow resin is making its way up the distributor into the valve, possibly clogging the turbine from operating. Lastly I have no idea why it leaks, as I checked the gaskets and re-lubed it up with silicon grease and have re-done the connection more than once trying to troubleshoot this.

I am at my wits end and need to bounce this off the community for any other ideas.

The only thing I can think of is trying to get a new distributor basket to redo that, and a new gasket to try to stop the leak. Everything else seems sound.

For my system, the major differences is that we have a higher than normal amount of people in the household, about 7 total. So I opted for a 32mm high flow bottom distributor basket and ran 1 1/4" piping to make sure we had enough flow. Does anyone have any experience with this distributor basket? It all came fully assembled, resin in the system as well I just had to attach the vale and plumb it.

Lastly, this is definitely not just some backwash resin or small amounts. When I clean my washer filter, I collect a good 1/4oz of resin from the filter in a cup. I assume other parts of the house are getting it too but I just am not noticing it.

In the mean time, I clean filters and I manually cycle the Fleck every 7 days to keep it going.

Edit:
I have ResinTech CG10 10% resin 48k capacity. The high flow distributor I have, as I understand can even be used with fine mesh resin and does not require a gravel bed. The slits should measure 008-.010 inches wide. I could be wrong though, but do others have experience with this and maybe the resin is making its way through the distributor?

Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

Do you have a top basket?
What is the size of the tank?
What is the DLFC value?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

Check to make sure the inlet and outlet connections are not reversed. Might sound ridiculous but reversed connections are fairly common. The outlet on a Fleck is on the left when facing the unit from the front. The meter turbine should be located on the outlet port.

Replacement of an 'O' ring or two maybe necessary to stop the connection leak unless the housing is cracked.

If you were able to pullout and reinstall the riser tube and bottom basket without needing to dump-out and reinstall the resin, that seems to signify there is no gravel underbed. An underbed is always recommended to not only better distribute the flow over the diameter of the tank, but also to reduce the possibility of resin discharge to the plumbing if there was to be an issue with the bottom screen.

A full 1.5 cuft system typically utilizes a 10" X 54" tank whereas many online dealers not only omit including an underbed to save some shipping costs, but also often supply a shorter tank to save a couple bucks for the smaller tank.

 

[ditttohead]

Agree with Bannerman.

Inlet/outlet reversed is a high possibility.

No gravel underbedding... sigh. So many companies try to convince customers that it is not a good idea. This is done solely to reduce their cost in both equipment and shipping. Since they offer "Free shipping" and they are so determined to be $1 cheaper than the next company.

Post a picture of the leak, we can help with that easily.

As to the 32mm riser assembly, this is one of the best assuming they used the Fleck screen. A couple of companies have made cheaper versions of this screen and if you bought the system from an online company, it is possible they have sourced one of these cheaper screens in order to shave a few dollars off the cost of the unit.

You can add a gravel underbedding by simply purchasing a NSF listed #6 gravel and add 15 pounds on top of the resin. It will reclassify itself during the first backwash. This will virtually eliminate the possibility of resin exiting the bottom screen.

 

[Dude051]

Thanks for the posts! Sorry I am just getting back to this.

I quadruple checked reversed inlet/outlet, so sure that is correct. What's funny is it did work when I got the unit for the first few weeks and if I pull the bypass off and take the turbine in and place back in sometimes it will work again for a week or so until the next backwash.

BLFC: .250 GPM
DLFC: 2.4 GPM

Pictures of the unit and my leak here:
https://goo.gl/photos/xCUYaANSUGiGRcnu6

Its a very small drip, steady all the time. You can see the hard water stain it has left on the tank. I might try replacing the O-rings since I have greased it up with silicon grease and re-done the connection a number of times now and I can't get it to stop. Any additional help here would be great.

No top basket on the riser. For the bottom basket, I checked where I purchased this from and it does not say if it is the Fleck screen or not. It is just labeled as "Lower Distributor & Riser, STD Mesh, 32MM"

Now that you all mention it, I don't think it has gravel but that is great advice! Unless any others have ideas. It sounds like this would be win-win either way. But you are right, I get mixed opinions on the gravel and the companies only include it if you ask or add it yourself.

 

[Bannerman]

Does the turbine recognize any flow? If no flow is registered, I suspect either an electrical connection issue or a defective turbine. Maybe moving the wiring around so as to perform the magnet test, or to reinstall the turbine, caused the connection to re-establish temporarily. When you inspected the turbine, did it spin easily?

If detecting some flow, but the wrong amount -
1) Ensure the controller is programmed for the correct meter type.
2) There should be a flow straightener located in front of the turbine. Ensure the straightener is installed correctly as without it, the water pattern maybe turbulent and causing an issue for the turbine to properly detect the full volume.

You may wish to pullout the riser and distributor basket again to closely inspect both. If there is a crack large enough in either to pass resin, you will experience the issues you continue to have. As low cost insurance, perhaps replace both with the quality components Ditttohead suggested,. Add the prescribed amount of gravel after reinstalling the riser and distributor.

If an 'O' ring was installed dry and was twisted, or has a compression 'scar', that maybe causing the small leak. Replacing the relevant 'O' ring(s) should resolve the leak issue.

 

[ditttohead]

Remove the o-ring and check the mold "nit". This is the location where the mold comes together. On occasion the nit will be slightly noticeable and this can lead to a leak at the location.

 

[Dude051]

So I pulled it last night, and after messing with the turbine it seems that the issue is if I push it all the way in the turbine is restricted.

Example is, if I put the turbine in and push it in only about two inches, I can use a screw driver to flick it and get it to spin. If I push it all the way back until the turbine stops, I can move the turbine but it does not move freely. I tried placing it a bit forward so it moved freely but once I put the bypass in and lock it in, this pushes it back in and it no longer seems to move.

I looked back in the outlet and there is nothing noticeable that would be stopping it. Could it be a defect of the housing mold maybe? I am not sure of the clearance, but my other guess was that resin beads were getting in the way and stopping it from moving as well.

I also checked to see if there was any noticeable defect with the nit or seam inside the outlet but it seems smooth. So the leak might be an out of shape o-ring.

 

[Reach4]

last year I purchased a Fleck 7000sxt 48,000 Grain system from an online site.

I would tell them about the problem as soon as possible. I think there is a 5 year warranty on the control, but I am not sure about other parts. In particular, O-rings may not be covered, but even if not, they might be more accommodating if they know about the problem sooner.

Whenever I put together O-rings, I use a very light coat of Molykote 111... which is a thicker silicone grease. A 5.3 ounce tube lasts a long long time. Professionals often use a thinner silicone called release compound. It is probably faster to use. I like the thicker grease. I think it may have slight sealant properties in addition to helping the rubber slide into position. The grease would not have been a factor in the interference with the turbine rotation. I am just thinking of the o-rings.

Danco 88693 is 1/2 ounce silicone grease, but it is may be more available locally. 1/2 ounce is enough to do many o-rings.

That is a long assembly including the stainless flex lines hanging out there. There is a lot of "moment arm". I wonder if it would help to support that weight some.

I don't know about your turbine problem.

 

[ditttohead]

I have not really seen any of the 7000 bypasses leak at the o-ring unless they get pinched during assembly. The "nit" is a possible problem but I have not seen any of the 7000 bypasses have an issue, just something to be aware of. I have seen it on many other valves and components and a simple scrape with a razor blade or a little scotchbrite pad usually corrects it.

For the meter not reading, you may want to replace the turbine, they are easy to replace and may correct the problem. Easier than replacing the whole valve. I have not seen that issue on the 7000. You still need to determine why the resin was getting into the house.

 

[Dude051]

After my last post, I had taken the turbine out once more and it now seems to be reading, only at random times. If I go turn on some faucets I don't get a water indicator blinking on the display. I came back the next day after work though and it had decreased the water count, so I know its spinning at sometime or another now. I am beginning to wonder if the resin in the line may be causing the turbine to seize.

I think my current plan of action will be:
- Order a new Fleck 32mm bottom basket for the distributor (just in case im missing a defect or broken area I cant see)
- Order the 15lbs of gravel to add to the system (doesn't seem to hurt)
- Get a new o-ring to replace in the outlet just in case

Pending that, I will clean the inside of the outlet real well to make there there is no buildup or resin, run a full regeneration cycle and run it for a while to see how the turbine goes. Hopefully I won't get any resin in my lines and based on the results if the turbine continues to operate or not I can replace that last.

I just am hard pressed to think its the actual turbine since I can take it out, the magnets work, it spins freely and I can get it to register on the display if I spin the turbine manually over the meter wire. It is possible though, so process of elimination of what I know is wrong first.

Thanks for the suggestions and help all. Once I get everything in and run through these ill update again.

 

[Dude051]

Oh also just in case as Reach4 mentioned, if there is too much weight from the flex lines I am going to add some supports to alleviate that.

 

[Dude051]

I finally got around to do this, and after putting in 15lbs of gravel and running one full regeneration cycle the turbine seems to not be seizing. I think I won that battle!

When I pulled the distributor basket and tube, I physically found resin inside the basket and it easily passed through the slits. I looked up the top of the distributor, and its got the marking of a real Fleck and says its made in the USA... so no idea. I will run it and see how it performs, it usually takes a week and one regeneration for it to top working.

On the bad side, my leak has worsened. I put in new o-rings, lubed it up good with silicone grease and it is still dripping. Even worse, if I manage to push up on the bypass it will actually being to trickle out as a light stream from the same area. The leak is actually in two places, one from where the clip holds the bypass in place and one where the bypass connection comes in. Picture attached showing this.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/269RcPzGlsr6aCgm2

Any ideas on how to stop this leak, or should I start seeking warranty service for this?

 

[Reach4]

I see you already replaced the O-rings and used silicone grease. Guess you need a new adapter.

 

[ditttohead]

Either a problem with the bypass or the valve body. Hard to say which. The bottom screen on the Flecks do not say made in USA on them. The cleack screens do. Did the screen have stainless screws in it? If not that is the budget Clack bottom screen and should be replaced with either the Clack heavy or Fleck heavy screen. Not the budget screens.

 

[Dude051]

To troubleshoot the leak, can I re-plumb and flip the bypass upside down to switch the bypass outlets? My thinking is to see if I flip the bypass, while correctly re-plumbing it, I can see if it leaks on the same side or the other which should help me narrow it down to the valve body or the bypass?

As for the screen, it has no screws in it and is just glued plastic.

 

[ditttohead]

Bottom screen.. Natural color... Likely the light duty clack bottom screen. These are ok but they make a heavy duty version that is much better.