Replacing water shut off valves

[Mark Ezrin]

I need to replace some water shut off valves throughout the house as they have minor drips. It's been suggested that at this point, while I'm replacing some, I should do them all. The house has 3 finished levels and is 24 years old.

I know I need to turn off the main water and then open all faucets, etc to drain all the water before I remove any valves.

Here come my stupid questions.
1) how do i know all water has been drained? I assume just that it's stopped in all open valves.

2) my bigger question is do I need to drain the gas hot water heater? Or will running all the faucets effectively do that? The water heater is 50 gallons.

Any other tips or tricks.

Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

It's been suggested that at this point, while I'm replacing some, I should do them all.

Why? Are they Accor push-on valves? https://terrylove.com/forums/index....ly-line-has-odd-connection.85010/#post-611338 Is there a symptom?

1) how do i know all water has been drained? I assume just that it's stopped in all open valves.

I don't know what that means. Maybe you are used to talking about switches, where an open switch stops flow. In valves, a closed valve stops flow.

2) my bigger question is do I need to drain the gas hot water heater? Or will running all the faucets effectively do that? The water heater is 50 gallons.

Water heater is in the basement, lower than the valves you are changing? Then no.

Water heater is in the second story higher than some valves? Still, probably not. Turn off the fill valve (although that should in theory not be needed).

Any other tips or tricks.

What kind of pipe are the valves on? What kind of valves are they? For example, you have copper pipe and the valves are sweated (soldered) on. You have PVC pipe, and the valve are glued on.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[John Gayewski]

Best way to drain a system is. Hook a hose to the drain port of your water heater (this is usually the lowest point in a house) Turn the water heater off, turn the water off, open the first valve you want to change out closest to the water heater. The suction of the draining water heater draining will slurp the piping from the water heater to this first valve quickly and fully. Then change the valve.

You can do them all individually like this or take turns opening the valves and then closing them to isolate each run of piping. Start closest to the water heater and work your way back.

This is how i try to do things in a house with carpet or in precarious areas that need drained.

 

[Sylvan]

Where is the water heater located?

If it is in a basement below the faucets, you do not need to drain it. If it is above the valve replacement, then you shut the outlet valve and inlet valve on the heater

You do not want the heater to implode by causing a vacuum

 

[Mark Ezrin]

Why? Are they Accor push-on valves? https://terrylove.com/forums/index....ly-line-has-odd-connection.85010/#post-611338 Is there a symptom?

I don't know what that means. Maybe you are used to talking about switches, where an open switch stops flow. In valves, a closed valve stops flow.

Water heater is in the basement, lower than the valves you are changing? Then no.

Water heater is in the second story higher than some valves? Still, probably not. Turn off the fill valve (although that should in theory not be needed).


What kind of pipe are the valves on? What kind of valves are they? For example, you have copper pipe and the valves are sweated (soldered) on. You have PVC pipe, and the valve are glued on.

They are not Accor. I think they're just called inlet compression valves. This is what most look like.

The symptom on a good number of them is a slight drip. Sometimes, with a little playing around, I can get it right so it doesn't drip. But they get so touchy.

I've read and been told that since the house is 24 years old, even if some aren't yet dripping, once I've got the water drained, I might as well replace them all.

Yeah, I guess I'm just used to talking switches and trying to make sure I don't have water damage doing this.

The water heater is in the basement. Also in the basement are at least 4-5 valves (2 sinks and a tub/shower, plus one valve to the humidifier and one to the hot water heater).

To me, it looks like all the valves are compression valves on the PVC. I can't recall any copper.

I think they are all 1/2" PVC.

Any suggestions on what to replace them with? Same, or the quarter turn valve?

BrassCraft 1/2 in. Compression Inlet x 3/8 in. Compression Outlet 1/4-Turn Angle Valve G2CR19X C1 - The Home Depot

Control water flow to faucets, toilets, icemakers and washing machines with this BrassCraft Nominal Compression Inlet O.D. Compression Outlet Valve.

www.homedepot.com

https://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-1-2-in-Nominal-Compression-Inlet-x-3-8-in-O-D-Compression-Outlet-Multi-Turn-Chrome-Plated-Angle-Valve-OCR19X-C1/202047058

Thanks.

 

[Mark Ezrin]

Best way to drain a system is. Hook a hose to the drain port of your water heater (this is usually the lowest point in a house) Turn the water heater off, turn the water off, open the first valve you want to change out closest to the water heater. The suction of the draining water heater draining will slurp the piping from the water heater to this first valve quickly and fully. Then change the valve.

You can do them all individually like this or take turns opening the valves and then closing them to isolate each run of piping. Start closest to the water heater and work your way back.

This is how i try to do things in a house with carpet or in precarious areas that need drained.

John,

Thanks for the tips.

Just to be clear, I'm not draining the hot water heater itself? That step isn't listed above, but implied. When you say turn the water heater off, you're talking about the pilot light, etc? Not just the water to it? If it's not being drained, what does the hose do? I assume I'm dropping the hose in my sump pump.

I don't mind doing them all in some expedited way. But basically open valves from the basement to the bedroom level in that order? One friend said open all valves at the same time to expedite draining the house water.

I'm trying to learn so I appreciate the help.

Thanks.

 

[Mark Ezrin]

Where is the water heater located?

If it is in a basement below the faucets, you do not need to drain it. If it is above the valve replacement, then you shut the outlet valve and inlet valve on the heater

You do not want the heater to implode by causing a vacuum

Hot water heater is in the basement, along with 4-5 valves (full bath and a utility sink).

Just to be clear, cause you had me at implode - I'm going to replace all valves in the house, from the basement to the bedroom level.

Isn't the outlet valve on the heater shut unless you're draining it?

My goal/hope is to not drain 50 gallon heater unless that's just good advice. It's a few years old.

Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

I think they are all 1/2" PVC.

Any suggestions on what to replace them with? Same, or the quarter turn valve?

It may be CPVC, which is 5/8 (0.625) inch OD -- same as copper. 1/2 inch PVC would be 0.840 OD.

You may be able to replace most of the valve, but keep the old nut and ferrule (olive) in place. You could start with a pipe that has enough length to support cutting the pipe some to allow a new valve.

SharkBite push-on valve have their advantages. They can go on 1/2 inch CPVC. There are also cement-on for CPVC. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Dahl-61...omp-Angle-Supply-Stop-Lead-Free-Chrome-Plated for example.

 

[Sylvan]

Hot water heater is in the basement, along with 4-5 valves (full bath and a utility sink).

Just to be clear, cause you had me at implode - I'm going to replace all valves in the house, from the basement to the bedroom level.

Isn't the outlet valve on the heater shut unless you're draining it?

My goal/hope is to not drain 50 gallon heater unless that's just good advice. It's a few years old.

Thanks.

One of my accounts is a 27-story building, and it has a tank on the roof. The other contractor they hired decided to drain the system, neglecting to see if there was a vacuum relief device.

The draining caused a severe vacuum, and the tank imploded, allowing 10,000 gallons to flood both elevator shafts and the mechanical room

Your tank is below the valve you want to fix, so there should be no problem.

 

[Reach4]

The other contractor they hired decided to drain the system, neglecting to see if there was a vacuum relief device.

I had been thinking the roof tanks were atmospheric-pressure tanks.... at least the wooden ones. Guess I was wrong in that thought.

 

[bigb56]

I have a lot of Watts quarter turn angle stops but I noticed when they don't get used for a long time they are impossible to turn without tools. Is there a way to fix them or do they just have to be replaced? I'd like them to be easily operated for tenants in case of emergency.

 

[Reach4]

I have a lot of Watts quarter turn angle stops but I noticed when they don't get used for a long time they are impossible to turn without tools. Is there a way to fix them or do they just have to be replaced? I'd like them to be easily operated for tenants in case of emergency.

I wonder if operating serveral times periodically would do it --

 

[bigb56]

I wonder if operating serveral times periodically would do it --

I'm going to try that when I get over there next week but it seems I've tried working them back and forth before only to have them get stuck weeks later.

 

[Fitter30]

John,

Thanks for the tips.

Just to be clear, I'm not draining the hot water heater itself? That step isn't listed above, but implied. When you say turn the water heater off, you're talking about the pilot light, etc? Not just the water to it? If it's not being drained, what does the hose do? I assume I'm dropping the hose in my sump pump.

I don't mind doing them all in some expedited way. But basically open valves from the basement to the bedroom level in that order? One friend said open all valves at the same time to expedite draining the house water.

I'm trying to learn so I appreciate the help.

Thanks.

Just turn it to pilot not off.

 

[Fitter30]

Valves need to excirsise at least once or twice a year. Most people don't do it but if there's a mineral build up it helps clear it.

 

[John Gayewski]

John,

Thanks for the tips.

Just to be clear, I'm not draining the hot water heater itself? That step isn't listed above, but implied. When you say turn the water heater off, you're talking about the pilot light, etc? Not just the water to it? If it's not being drained, what does the hose do? I assume I'm dropping the hose in my sump pump.

I don't mind doing them all in some expedited way. But basically open valves from the basement to the bedroom level in that order? One friend said open all valves at the same time to expedite draining the house water.

I'm trying to learn so I appreciate the help.

Thanks.

You are draining the pipes into the water heater. Your not draining the water heater down all of the way you just use it to create a good vacuum in the piping. When the pipes are empty you stop draining the water heater
There's no reason to let the water heater drain down farther than about a third of it.

You shut the gas valve off not the water to it. The only water that needs shut off is the main valve to the house.

 

[Sylvan]

I had been thinking the roof tanks were atmospheric-pressure tanks.... at least the wooden ones. Guess I was wrong in that thought.

The wooden tanks are open. The steel tanks are normally closed, which can be a problem when draining.

The wooden tanks normally have 4 outlets

1- drain down

2-potable water

3- Sprinkler

4- Stand pipe

In city housing, it is common to find the tank's access door missing, as kids go swimming in the tanks and allow pigeons to nest inside, resulting in many deaths and the bodies ending up inside the tank. As they deteriorate, the feathers block risers and branches.

GROSS to say the least

 

[JohnCT]

The draining caused a severe vacuum, and the tank imploded, allowing 10,000 gallons to flood both elevator shafts and the mechanical room

You would think they would put a relief valve on them?

John

 

[Sylvan]

You would think they would put a relief valve on them?

John

They're supposed to, but sometimes they leak, so imbisiles remove the vacuum relief and plug the line.


I witnessed numerous violations during my boiler inspections.

A guy installed a Relief valve on a boiler, not a safety valve.

During another inspection, a steam valve set for 15 PSI was installed backward on a hydronic boiler. I asked him WHY???

He said it kept leaking, so he reversed the safety

When in doubt, remove the safety devices, as what can possibly go wrong