Replacing shutoffs on PEX-A

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Vdawg

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I'm considering purchasing a production home that will be built with PEX-A. The builder appears to be using Accor shutoff valves, which I'd plan to replace fairly soon after moving in. But I could foresee an issue with the stub-outs being fairly short meaning simply cutting off the old valve may not be possibility. My research indicates that removing the Accor valve could leave scoring on the outside of the pipe even if I carefully cut off the valve rather than using the "twist and pull" method. This could then preclude me from reliably using a new "quality" push-fit valve like a SharkBite if the outside of the pipe is not pristine.

One thought I had was that if the outside of the pipe could not be guaranteed to be pristine after removing the Accor valve, using a valve that inserts into the pipe might be a safer option. For sinks and toilets, I'm not particularly concerned with the amount of flow restriction that might occur by doing this, so this is a viable option for me. I'm thinking using an expander tool to insert a new valve might also work well if the stub-out is fairly short after removing the old valve.

I have plenty of DIY experience with simple CPVC plumbing and have replaced all the shutoffs in my current home with good results, but I'm new to PEX pipes and fittings so I'd appreciate any advice.

So, assuming it's not an option to have the builder install better brass valves during the build (I asked, it's not) what would be the recommended way to replace the valves after the fact, and what would be your choice for the type of valve to use in this case, also assuming there won't be much of a stub penetration (< 1.5") in front of the wall/cabinet wall?

Thanks for any and all opinions and advice!
 

JohnCT

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Could you talk the builder into using copper stub outs, or is there a water issue?

John
 

Terry

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Normally builders don't like any changes for their homes. There are a lot of ways for information to subs to get misplaced. Information gets lost, and then the lawsuits begin. A custom builder may listen, but it's not likely with tract homes.

And yes, my son's new home has Accor on PEX. Lovely.......I don't like it either.
 

JohnCT

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A friend of mine uses a 1" pipe cutter and cuts the Accor valve itself, not the pipe. Once he splits the valve, the valve body comes off leaving the grab metal ring and the back of the plastic valve on the pipe. He then uses diagonal cutters (like an electrician uses) to snip the metal grab ring and removes it and the rest of the valve. This way, there's no spinning of the valve and the pipe remains undamaged.

John
 

Vdawg

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My concern -- even with cutting off the old valve -- is that the installation of the valve with the metal "grab" ring may have scored the outside of PEX while being pushed on. I'm not sure my untrained eye would be able to discern if the pipe was pristine enough to receive a Sharkbite at that point.

These look promising, and wouldn't require a perfect outside on the PEX if I understand them correctly:
https://tinyurl.com/keeneyvalve
Expensive per valve, but would likely still work if the stub out was pretty short and even if the outside of the pipe wasn't perfect. Wouldn't require me to buy an expander tool either. :)

I saw one positive review where the customer was in the same exact situation and said it worked well for him:
"Used this valve to replace one of those cheap builders grade white plastic push-pull valves on PEX stub at toilet. Won't mention the brand but those white plastic valves are c%$p and a nightmare to remove without damaging the outer surface of the PEX stub. Unfortunately most push-on replacement valves employ an o-ring which needs to seal to the outer surface. This new Plumb Pak valve is different, it uses a unique "barb" and dual o-rings to seal to the INSIDE of the PEX which in my case was a good thing because the outside of the PEX was scratched a bit. Simply push o-ring barb inside the PEX and tighten the split compression ring and nut. The install was easy and secure with zero leakage. Happy."
 

JohnCT

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It's true that the installation of the push on valve scratches the PEX, but because the barbs are angled, they drag across the PEX on installation, not dig in. If this wasn't true, the original push on valve would leak as well. It's the forced twist-off removal of the original Accor valve that does most of the damage because of the angle of the barbs. Cutting off the plastic Accor valve and cutting the barb ring means no dragging damage on the way out. But I do get your concern.

The Keeney valve you linked uses O-rings on the *inside* of the PEX where there is no damage at all. It uses a compression collar to push the PEX down over the insert with the O-rings. Other than mineral deposits inside the PEX, it should be a virgin surface for they new Keeney valve, and any subsequent replacements should not have issues as well. It does reduce flow, but for a single fixture, I don't see a problem.

If the valve itself is of good quality, I can see this being an *excellent* solution to a leaky PEX stub out where an Accor was dragged off a pipe and gouged the outside of it.

John
 

Jeff H Young

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My experiance is little with that stuff other than cutting them off . I did see there is a process twist and pull I heard scratches can occur.
I have spent half my plumbing in production housing and most of which was as journeyman and not all wrapped up in the buisness end but.... most builders are interested in options they make money on and not just to satisfy the client . Some are accomadating, some offer upgrades that are so expensive like counter tops that people would get thier home and hire thier own contractor to rip out tile and change to granite, same with flooring . take the standard carpet and vinyl.
On other hand we sometimes would upgrade fixtures and add hose bibs and plumb for softeners etc.
I would inquire at sales office, unless you actually prefer doing it yourself. unless you think you can actually get through to field employee and have him leave stubouts long
 

Jeff H Young

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Agree with Terry that many dont like changes but who cares what they like. Worth a try to ask about angle stop upgrade or go direct to plumber and ask to leave stubouts long . but you gotta catch him on the right day . every job is differant and so is client acsess typicaly angle stop the day cabinets go in or befor the rough top goes on. especial if you got 5 , 10, houses or more. you dont want to irritate them but it might be easy being nice helps.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Agree with Terry that many dont like changes but who cares what they like. Worth a try to ask about angle stop upgrade or go direct to plumber and ask to leave stubouts long . but you gotta catch him on the right day . every job is differant and so is client acsess typicaly angle stop the day cabinets go in or befor the rough top goes on. especial if you got 5 , 10, houses or more. you dont want to irritate them but it might be easy being nice helps.

Gotta figure out what beer they drink
 

Jeff H Young

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Gotta figure out what beer they drink
People can be helpful under the right circumstances. catch them at the right time I'd leave the stubs long for a homebuyer. If You have time its good to look at home all you can when you can as the build progresses. If its close by don't want to be a pest though.
 

Michael Young

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I'm considering purchasing a production home that will be built with PEX-A. The builder appears to be using Accor shutoff valves, which I'd plan to replace fairly soon after moving in. But I could foresee an issue with the stub-outs being fairly short meaning simply cutting off the old valve may not be possibility. My research indicates that removing the Accor valve could leave scoring on the outside of the pipe even if I carefully cut off the valve rather than using the "twist and pull" method. This could then preclude me from reliably using a new "quality" push-fit valve like a SharkBite if the outside of the pipe is not pristine.

One thought I had was that if the outside of the pipe could not be guaranteed to be pristine after removing the Accor valve, using a valve that inserts into the pipe might be a safer option. For sinks and toilets, I'm not particularly concerned with the amount of flow restriction that might occur by doing this, so this is a viable option for me. I'm thinking using an expander tool to insert a new valve might also work well if the stub-out is fairly short after removing the old valve.

I have plenty of DIY experience with simple CPVC plumbing and have replaced all the shutoffs in my current home with good results, but I'm new to PEX pipes and fittings so I'd appreciate any advice.

So, assuming it's not an option to have the builder install better brass valves during the build (I asked, it's not) what would be the recommended way to replace the valves after the fact, and what would be your choice for the type of valve to use in this case, also assuming there won't be much of a stub penetration (< 1.5") in front of the wall/cabinet wall?

Thanks for any and all opinions and advice!

Sorry to hear that. I freakin’ HATE ACOR valves. To remove, a little pain in the ass. But twist counter-clockwise until the valve pulls off. Use some snips to cut the metal ring. Crimp in your new valves. I'm surprised as "Gosh darn golly" that ACOR is still legal.

BTW, If YOU ARE PAYING for the house and the builder does not comply with YOUR WISHES to build it the way YOU WANT. Fire the freakin’ bum and get another builder! MY MONEY, MY HOUSE, MY WAY! otherwise hoof-it. zero-percent that I would ever allow some pisher builder to TELL ME how it's gonna be if I'm the guy paying for everything.

-mike
https://homeservicestriad.com/
 

JohnCT

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Sorry to hear that. I freakin’ HATE ACOR valves. To remove, a little pain in the ass. But twist counter-clockwise until the valve pulls off. Use some snips to cut the metal ring.

The counter clockwise twisting and pulling is what scores and gouges the pipe. Cutting the plastic body of the valve with a pipe cutter to expose the crimp ring means you can snip the crimp ring without moving it across the pipe.

BTW, If YOU ARE PAYING for the house and the builder does not comply with YOUR WISHES to build it the way YOU WANT. Fire the freakin’ bum and get another builder! MY MONEY, MY HOUSE, MY WAY! otherwise hoof-it. zero-percent that I would ever allow some pisher builder to TELL ME how it's gonna be if I'm the guy paying for everything.

Sometimes the builder owns the land. When I built my house, the builder owned the property and wouldn't sell us the lot even if I had a builder in mind (we didn't). In my small town, flat lots are uncommon. This building lot was 1.7 acres and flat except for some 1/3 acre of wetlands in the woods at the end of the property and was in the best part of town to boot. Fortunately, the builder was well known for building fine homes and they certainly did an excellent job. Also fortunately, they were very accommodating. I asked for a copper wiring for the 220 outlets (aluminum was allowed) and they said sure. After the foundation was in and the framing started, I noticed the family room seemed a bit narrow, and the builder cantilevered the first floor two feet (code max) which also increased the "bonus" room over the garage two feet. For the extra building material, he charged something like $2200 back in 1993. You wouldn't believe how only two extra feet transformed those two rooms. They also installed a whole-house fan for me that I wanted, and right before closing we noticed there were no ceiling lighting fixtures in the bedrooms (not done anymore - just switched outlets for lamps). I asked the builder about the ceiling fixtures and he said no problem. They added the ceiling boxes for just the cost of time and material - about $150 IIRC.

But there are builders who are just skunks. When I owned an alarm company, we dealt with many builders. Some were great and others were completely inflexible.

John
 
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