Replacing old Briggs 7340 rear outlet floor/wall mount

[GuiltySpark]

Hi there! We're renovating our 1982 built townhouse and found that our master bathroom toilet is a rear outlet Briggs model 7340 which I'm sure is quite old. I know about replacing regular toilets, but am completely uneducated about these rear outlet units. Questions I have are; will all rear outlet units fit? Does the size of the hole in the wall or its height on the wall matter or is it standard? I know they are more expensive than regular toilets but with my bathroom configuration, have no (viable) options other than to replace as opposed to re-plumb. I like the toilets that sit on the floor and that are the taller, elongated style. I hear great things about Toto, but don't know if they have a model that would work in my situation. I'm going to upload a couple of photos of the wall where it was mounted before and would really appreciate ANY advice. I would hate to buy the wrong toilet. Thank you all for your help!

 

[WJcandee]

The centerline of the flange for a rear-discharge floor-mount is commonly 4" above the finished floor.

Did you guys use thicker tile in this installation? I ask because the bottom of the flange looks to be below the floor line, and I question whether that's going to work for you. In other words, the higher floor may preclude the flange from lining up with the toilet outlet. I'm sure you can find some way to fix that, but it's an obvious concern. Of course, you could open the wall and replumb the pipe between wall and flange in order to raise the flange. That would be much less involved than installing a floor flange.

Toto doesn't make a floor-mount rear-discharge unit.

Probably your most obvious choice is the American Standard 2876.100.020, which is a white Yorkville Flowise Pressure Assist toilet. It uses the Sloan Flushmate, which gives it a pressure-assist flush that works well. It's a little noisy on the flush -- you get the ka-WOOSH of the pressure assist. But most people think its okay. Street price more or less $475 for the regular height, about $100 more for the higher version. (The suggested list is, as with most things, considerably higher.)

Here is the spec sheet for the Elongated regular height version, with the lip of the bowl 15" above the floor.

Here's the spec sheet for the AS Yorkville Right-Height 2878.016 version, which is 16.5" to the lip of the bowl.

Other options include a Mansfield Quantum-One Elongated ADA rear-outlet toilet, which is also pressure-assist. It is "chair height", which is 16.25 inches to the lip of the bowl. We don't have a lot of experience with Mansfield, as it tends to be distributed more-regionally than other brands. Menard's, for example, sells it. http://www.mansfieldplumbing.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/151-119.pdf It's a dual-flush, which actually concerns me because I don't know if it uses the Sloan Flushmate (great) system or, instead, the hated, despised, said-to-be-prone-to-breaking WDI Dual-Flush pressure vessel.

Gerber makes, for about $375 street price, a Maxwell 16.5" high elongated back outlet, Model Number 20-022. http://www.gerberonline.com/downloads/specs/Toilet/20-022.pdf It's a gravity-flush (like most toilets are). It has a MAP rating of more than 1000g, which is as good as it gets, but I don't know more about the flush (bowl-cleaning, etc.). Terry has had good experience with their wall-mount rear-outlet Maxwell, but that's a different bowl so one can't necessarily make comparisons. If you think the pressure-flush would be too loud, then this is an option.

Keep talking to us and we will help you narrow your already-narrow choices and give you some ideas on installation. Are you doing this yourself or having a pro do it?

 

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[Ian Heritage]

I hope this ended well. What toilet did you go for in the end and are you happy with it? Did you have an issue with the flange height from the ruling and what did you do to solve it?

 

[Terry]

Here is a floor mount, rear outlet that I found in Seattle.
That black at the back is an ABS drain above the concrete slab. I'm thinking the Gerber Maxwell 20-022 as a replacement.
http://terrylove.biz/toilets/50-gerber-maxwell-het-ge-20-022.html

And this is going to need a new shutoff too.

 

[Blayne]

Hi Terry- Did you end up installing that Gerber Maxwell 20-022?

I am remodeling the bathrooms in our condo and just discovered last week that we have rear outlet toilets. Good thing, as I was just days away from ordering another Toto, which of course would not have worked out so well.

We are trying to find the best performing ROFM to purchase and install. I need to figure this out pretty quickly as I want to get started tiling.

The wall drain is mounted exactly 4 inches OC from the cement floor and it cannot be adjusted up or down as best as I can figure. So this means I have no option other than to mount the toilet directly to the cement floor, since installing above the tile would place it about 1/2 inch too high for the drain pipe. Really sucks since I would much prefer to install it on top of the tile.

Thanks in advance.

And if anyone else has first hand experience with ROFM toilets, please let me know your thoughts. We have considered the American Standard Yorkville but are not fans of AS.

-Blayne

 

[Flapper]

Here is a floor mount, rear outlet that I found in Seattle.
That black at the back is an ABS drain above the concrete slab. I'm thinking the Gerber Maxwell 20-022 as a replacement.
http://terrylove.biz/toilets/50-gerber-maxwell-het-ge-20-022.html

And this is going to need a new shutoff too.

Why does that valve have a wallplate/escuscheon thing when there's no wall?!

 

[Terry]

The wall drain is mounted exactly 4 inches OC from the cement floor and it cannot be adjusted up or down as best as I can figure. So this means I have no option other than to mount the toilet directly to the cement floor, since installing above the tile would place it about 1/2 inch too high for the drain pipe. Really sucks since I would much prefer to install it on top of the tile.

Thanks in advance.

And if anyone else has first hand experience with ROFM toilets, please let me know your thoughts. We have considered the American Standard Yorkville but are not fans of AS.

-Blayne

Blayne,
I would pick up the toilet first and make your own measurements. The Gerber wall hung that I last instaleed had a bit of play there. It's a 2" exit going into a 4" pipe.
If you can install it over the tile, that would be way better, and I'm thinking you have a shot at that.

 

[Blayne]

Blayne,
I would pick up the toilet first and make your own measurements. The Gerber wall hung that I last instaleed had a bit of play there. It's a 2" exit going into a 4" pipe.
If you can install it over the tile, that would be way better, and I'm thinking you have a shot at that.

Thanks Terry, I didn't realize the exit opening out of the toilet was that much smaller than the 4" pipe opening. The only other factor is the bolt hole openings on the toilet for connecting to the wall flange. As long as they have enough space, maybe it would work with the toilet sitting on top of the tile.

So do you recommend that Gerber floor mount rear exit (20-022)? I cannot find much online in terms of customer reviews.

Thanks,
-Blayne

 

[WJcandee]

"Recommend" is a tough thing to ask. Should it be adequate quality and have an adequate flush? Yes it should. Should it blow you away with with its magnificence? Probably not gonna bowl you over, but it should be fine. And look nice enough. It should be a good, functional toilet.

The key is that it will be quieter than the AS. The AS would be louder, because it has a Flushmate pressure assist. That also means that the AS will probably have a more-effective flush and good bowl rinse, although it will have whatever disadvantages there are to the Flushmate. Do you need that extra flushing power? Probably not; for most people a good gravity toilet like the Maxwell should be fine. Quality at AS has apparently improved since it has been purchased by the major Japanese competitor to Toto, but it still ain't Toto, or the Standard of old. But it also should be fine if you inspect it carefully before accepting it, looking everywhere for defects and malformations in the clay.

Assuming you get a good version of either one, I would simply ask myself the question: Do I want the extra flushing power of a pressure assist? If so, and the noise isn't an issue (as it isn't for the many people who swear by the Flushmate), then I would go with the AS. If I don't usually clog regular toilets, the Maxwell should be fine.

There is a sort-of comparison with Terry's work at the Chalet condos up in the mountains of Washington. There, where he is the contractor for the condos' toilet replacement program, all the toilets are wall-mount rear-discharge. He gives the homeowner the option of the Maxwell wall-mount or the AS Glenwall pressure assist. The Glenwall performs well, but he gets more orders for the Maxwell, which is a little less expensive and, of course, quieter. As I understand it, he has good feedback on its performance from the homeowners. (One other factor, perhaps, is that, IIRC, the Maxwell wall-mount sits at ADA Height, whereas the Glenwall sits at regular height; this may be a significant deciding factor for the customers.)

 

[Blayne]

Assuming you get a good version of either one, I would simply ask myself the question: Do I want the extra flushing power of a pressure assist? If so, and the noise isn't an issue (as it isn't for the many people who swear by the Flushmate), then I would go with the AS. If I don't usually clog regular toilets, the Maxwell should be fine.

Thanks for the advise (if not a recommendation )

This is for a powder room bathroom, so it won't see as much "heavy" use as the bathrooms attached to the bedrooms. Given that, we're comfortable going with the gravity flush on the Gerber. We will be replacing the other two toilets as some point, so this one will be a good test run to see if we think it will "do the duty" for these other bathrooms when the time comes.

Terry, I went to order this from your site, and when I put it in my cart, it says "free shipping". However, when I go to check out, it says I have two delivery options, the first being "free pickup" in one of the store locations, and the other being a $39.99 delivery option in the Seattle area. So regardless of the free shipping, I don't seem to be able to order this from your site for delivery to CO at any price. Is that the case??

 

[Terry]

I can only sell toilets in the Seattle area.
Shipping cost me $200.00 with a 20% chance of breaking. I don't do it. Those toilets will be there locally for you. It's a very standard product that the plumbing wholesale houses will have.

When someone says that can ship a 100 pound box that the UPS driver can't even lift, and it's free? They are doing it at a loss.
I have plenty of business locally and I'm glad to share that with other plumbers around the country.

 

[Blayne]

So I ended up ordering the Gerber from a plumbing supply place in NJ. They had "free shipping", and I was a bit concerned whether I was going to run into any problems, but everything worked out great. I think it took about 7-10 days from ordering until the toilet arrived on my doorstep. The tank and bowl were in original Gerber boxes, and those boxes were inside of other boxes with heavy padding. No damage at all, and I have thoroughly inspected all the porcelain.

I did look into picking it up locally, but the place I found that carried Gerber said it would take four weeks for them to receive it. Their price was about $14 less than the place out of NJ, but after tax, it actually would have cost me more than ordering from across the country.

I don't have a full review to post since it isn't installed yet. Neither my wife nor I are thrilled with the elongated bowl, but no one seems to make a floor mount rear outlet toilet in a round bowl.

As far as installation, I am not going to be able to mount it on top of the tile as I had hoped. Not only will the bolts that go into the wall flange not make it through the holes in the toilet, the exit opening on the toilet ends up sitting too high to mate up with the wall pipe. And this is with the tile dry set, no mortar underneath (which would make the positioning even worse.)

So I ended up cutting the floor and wall tile for the toilet profile with diamond blade on an angle grinder. It worked quite well, and the fitment on the floor is no more than about 3/16 of an inch gap all the way around the base of the toilet. Should be an easy caulk job to make it look seamless.

I'll try to post some pix and a review once the toilet is actually in and working.

Thanks again for the assistance.