Replacing Exterior Hose Bibb, no room for heating the pipe

[Jsmallberries]

Attempting to replace an exterior hose bib gate valve with a Ball valve shut off, and add a threaded connector to easily replace if needed in the future.

Block/stucco exterior walls. I was not able to heat the pipe enough to remove it because of how close it is to the wall, afraid I might damage the hose bib and or the plastic pipe in the wall. (Need the hose bib not to leak if unable to remove)

The interior pipe is CPVC, so this copper attaches to it, but not sure how far in.

Any advice? I was using an old propane torch

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

If its attached to CPVC, I would locate where it connects to the CPVC and be prepared to make a repair at that point.

You can't heat / torch your way out of this one, put that torch away before you burn down the house.

When you grab the handle, does the spigot feel like its solidly attached to something in the wall or does is move around at all? If its really really solid then you should be able to simply unthread it and replace it. If it has any movement at all, then I would suggest opening the wall to see what its attached to and formulate a plan for that.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jsmallberries]

It connects inside the block wall and they didn’t brace it, or they did with caulking on the outside wall.
And btw, I’m pretty sure this was soldered to the copper before it was stuccoed, not threaded, That’s how the do things here.
That’s why I thought I could just heat it and slip it off.
If it is a soldered can I just heat the hose bib body?

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

The bibb itself looks like a threaded version to me. I've never seen one that is soldered.

I suppose you could heat the body to remove it if it is indeed soldered on. I would remove the packing nut and stem first. And if its a block wall without any instulation or anything else flamable inside then there is no risk of catching fire. Is that possible? But its going to be a bear to solder in that confined quarters. Make sure everthing is nice and clean and use only the amount of heat needed to melt the solder... the biggest mistake people make soldering is getting their work too hot

 

[Jsmallberries]

This is slab on grade Florida home, so the CPVC comes up from the ground in between the hollow block wall, so the insulation which is paper/foil is on the inside of the wall attached to the furring strips with an air gap. The pipe is sleeved through the wall, so the sleeve might probably flammable. The other side is a tiled shower.

I took a slightly closer photo, is it possible this was soldered to the hose bib? I'm not so sure now

 

[Terry]

I would think it's threaded on. That would mean "backing" it with a wrench on the wall side and spinning it off.
Unless you have access to the wall inside, it's going to be a nightmare.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I would think it's threaded on. That would mean "backing" it with a wrench on the wall side and spinning it off.
Unless you have access to the wall inside, it's going to be a nightmare.

Agreed. I think its threaded.. maybe a copper threaded male adapter? If it backs up to a shower, then you REALLY want the most effective leverage/bigger wrench/pliers on the male adapter and the smaller leverage on the Bibb..

 

[Jsmallberries]

How does this pass code? House is not that old, 22 years.
If you need to replace the hose bib, you will need to break out the block wall?

 

[Jsmallberries]

The shower plumbing is not on this wall

 

[Jsmallberries]

What about cutting it flush to the hose bib and break out enough stucco/block to solder on this adapter?

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

What about cutting it flush to the hose bib and break out enough stucco/block to solder on this adapter?

I would never attempt to solder a joint in a wall where I can't see the shoulder of the fitting. I would advise against going down that path.

If what is coming out of the wall is indeed copper, then its most likely a male adapter threaded into the Bibb... look for the Hex shoulders.. the threads may be completely buried into the valve.

 

[LLigetfa]

The bibb itself looks like a threaded version to me. I've never seen one that is soldered.

The BK Mueller hose bibs I have are combination and can be either sweat or threaded. They are identical to https://www.rona.ca/en/product/aqua-dynamic-brass-straight-anti-freeze-valve-1390-100-0173103

 

[LLigetfa]

If its really really solid then you should be able to simply unthread it and replace it.

The last time I tried putting a wrench on the flats to unthread it from the outside, it collapsed and spiral wound up the pipe.

I assume the inside is hidden in the wall and not accessible. Mine was visible on the inside but in such a tight space that I did not have enough room to turn the wrench. Not wanting to sweat the end of the hose bib, I had preassembled a threaded adapter with a stub of copper already sweated on so I just had to sweat the other end of the copper stub.

 

[Jsmallberries]

Found this thread that sums up my dilemma somewhat. Built to code, the sh****** house you can legally build. Maybe the rest of the country is the same, but here there is zero respect for the trades and the low bid wins out, right to work state, undocumented workers. How to you compete against that? The great race to the bottom

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/hose-bib-against-stucko-wall-help.46658/

Sweated or threaded there is no room to heat it or get a wrench on it. Plus if sweated, the wrench will damage the copper if I try to turn it. As previously stated, the CPVC comes up through the slab and is run up the interior of the block, so no access either way.

I'm planning on busting out the block so I can see what I have and go from there.

If sweated, would putting a wet rag as far back on the pipe help, or is there and heat sink gel available

I'll post pictures of the damage lol

 

[Jsmallberries]

Began the excavation, it was soldered, the supply pipe comes straight up into a right angle, covered in a thick plastic.

Look like the entire block cavity has been filled-in with a grout like product, as it comes out powdery when scrapped.

If I cut back the plastic just below the right angle and stuff a wet rag just under the right angle, should be okay right? ( see photos)
How much space do I need of clear copper pipe?
I really don't want to dig out any more, can't see where the transition to plastic pipe is however

Simply to change a hose bibb

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

That is a good one....

you want to be careful as to not burn the house down...

you might want to flood the cavity with water first,
then shut off the water to the home and drain it down enough to melt that
faucet off the copper sticking out of the wall....be careful...

Solder on that female adaptor to that copper pipe and you are good
all you got to do then is screw another boiler drain on to the female adaptor..

again.... have a spray bottle handy and dont burn the house down..


have fun... and may god have mercy on your soul..

 

[Jsmallberries]

Hadn't soldered copper in 7 years, didn't have any copper to practice on. Messed up first attempt, reheated and cleaned, re-soldered with a new fitting. There was a depression on the side where the threaded fitting goes. (see photo)

I had no choice but to try as-is, no room to cut back to a clean end. If this doesn't work, more of the wall will need to be broken out, top and bottom, and it's a filled block cavity.

Anyway, it is not currently leaking, maybe enough of the threaded fitting is sealed, I don't know, not enough experience with sweating copper.

Did I screw the pooch? I need some good news

Also,
1)Any ideas on how to best seal the open cavity, where if it does leak, water runs to the outside wall? Or for easier future access.
This damaged part of the pipe is app 1/2" in from the exterior wall surface
2) What to use to wrap the copper before sealing?

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

No, you are looking good for now.... if its not leaking it probably took ok..
That appears to be a nasty gash or bump
in the copper but their is plenty of area in the socket itself that took up the solder ok....

Now you can always just re-do the joint and just add a ton of solder over that spot and lay it on thick
to be extra sure if you so wish..... just throw on a lot of tinning flux and tin the area around the gash real good then just load on the solder like a band-aid

It will last forever....

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Right on. Looks like you got it. You may have been able to end your soldering at that spot and leave your solder at that spot so it fills in till it cools. Like you're pouring it in. But it does look like a good portion of the 1/2" socket should have full coverage for strength. The bibb you purchased is quarter turn so should reduce the stress on that fittng too.

To fill, I would put some plastic wrap and fill with mortar so that it holds the pipe from having movement. Plastic is to prevent cement from contacting and corroding the copper.

 

[Jsmallberries]

Thanks for all your replies,
Will close it up as recommended