Replaced burned up pump and it was stuck in mud now what.

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Doug Romonovich

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Hey what's going on everyone. (Skip to the end to get to the problem)
As the title says, my pump ended up going out and it was stuck in mud which made it a big pain in the ass. A little background.

Bought the house 9 years ago when i was on mid tour leave from Afghanistan. Was a HUD house but I got a good deal on it. House and well where built in the late 80's. Have not had any real issues with it besides a few minor things.
1. 2 or 3 years after I bought the pressure tank went out. Inside the tank was a mess from the popped bladder (after looking at my well log I believe it was the original pressure tank that was installed in the house). I think I flush things down my toilet that look cleaner than what was in it. Replaced with a new bigger pressure tank, T, relief valve, and pressure switch.
2. The house came with a rain soft system that I was have repaired every few months. I believe it was a late 80's early 90's system. After the final visit and over 300 bill the rainsoft guy said he couldn't get a broken cog in it and it was time to update the system. The system had 2 large cylinders connected together with a connection to my drain and a bin for salt. I ripped that system out and put in 3 big blue filters with sediment, iron sulfur magnanese reduction, and gac filters. All was fine.
3. Water heater went out and that was a simple replacement. Seemed like a lot of rust particles in the bottom of the tank. This was an 80's RO Smith heater I believe.

When I got the house it was used regularly and i had 2 roommates so all was good just chalked it up to owning a home. Roomates moved away and I kind of wandered around aimlessly for a while kind of letting the house sit. Well a series of unfortunate events led to my mom and grandmother staying at my house while her house gets rebuilt by insurance which leads to the current situation.

About 2 months after they moved in the well pump went out. After a trip to harbor freight, home depot, and a pump overnight from Amazon I got to work.
I built my T handle with 1 inch pipe to pull the pitman adapter got it pulled apart and tugged like hell and nothing. Got my flashlight and re examined and seen a poly rope that fell down in the pipe. Got a fish stick and fished it out. Seems it shrunk or got cut but was to short. Got a pull strap hooked it to the winch that I screwed to wood on an a frame ladder and hit the winch with an impact. Stressful but with good tension on the winch I jerked at the t bar and got it unstuck from the mud/silt. It came up rather easy I was shocked.
I replaced the pump 1 1/4 black pipe electric etc. And lowered it back down. Before I installed the pitman adapter inlet the pump run for about an hour and the water cleared up. Took some measurements dropped the pump to 60 ft and finished the install. Poured a gallon of bleach down the well and ran the garden hoses for about 2 hours.
Now I get waves of mud that clog my filters. When I go to clean them I hook a hose to the pressure tank fitting and spray out the housings. The water will come out murky but normally clear by the time I am finished (10-20 minutes). I have called several plumbers and off rough diagnosis our counties wells are the worste in the state and I need a good water filtration system or I need to sleeve my pump or buy this or buy that. To me this seemed like a band aid.
Talking to an old army buddy he told me to check with a well driller. I did that and got the phone diagnosis of a failed grout joint but I needed my well log and he was at least 2 weeks out. No biggie he had great reviews. Got the well log emailed it over and waited over a month. Sent a reminder email and he said he was busy and doesn't service my area (I literally gave him over a month without hounding or anything).

So now I am going to call around tomorrow to a few other well drillers. But at least I learned how to read a well log.

Summary:
6 inch casing in a 125' well. Pump was stuck in mud or silt at 90'. Raised well to 60' and still get random spurts of gunk clogging my filters.
What are my options?
Can I clean it out with a DIY lift pump or trash pump?
Can I sleeve it with 5" pvc and something like a jaswell seal?
I am very good at fixing things with proper directions but is this a thing I need a professional to do?

I am on a some what limited budget after my fourth deployment I spent 2 years at Walter Reed for a brain injury which ultimately led to me being permanently medically retired.

Thank you for reading and I appreciate the time you take to respond (if you do haha). I attached a picture of my well log to help paint a picture.
 

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Reach4

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You could get a well person with a big engine-driven compressor to blow lots of air, and cause a geyser of mud. Done in a few hours, I expect.

You could make an air lift pump if your static water level is high enough. Pump out the mud much slower with a smaller compressor than the geyser, but more than most home compressors. Maybe 8 SCFM. Search it out.

Trash pump only pumps from 25 ft, so no to that.

You could put a 4 inch liner in that. It would have fine slots. Then add "gravel" around the liner that looks more like course sand. Sold for the purpose. Size is important so that most of the gravel cannot make it into the slots.

I am not a pro, and I have not done any of that stuff. I saw the geyser from a 275 cfm compressor once. Impressive.

I skipped to the end. Maybe I will read more later.
 

Doug Romonovich

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Yeah I was looking at the big rental trash pumps with a 4 or 5 inch hose and making a connector to go down to inch and a quarter.

I have a 30 gallon 6hp craftsman air compressor that says it will push 150 psi. If I buy 1/2 hose it should work down to 125ft. Already bought the adapter to hook it into 1 1/4 poly pipe. Would just need to buy the air hose 4" cap to make a suction tube and fittings to connect the air hose into the poly line.

Just curious if I would be wasting my time and money or if I should just let a pro come out.

Can I buy the sleeving supplies?
What are they called?
Where do you buy them locally?
Is there 5 inch pipe?
How far down would I sleeve?
Would sleeving the whole thing stop water flow?
When sleeving do I use 2 of the expansion style adapters at water level and bottom?
Do I have to remove the pitman fitting inside the well to sleeve?
If I dig out the pitman fitting is it easy removable or will I need to cut and weld the pipe back together?

Edit*
I talked to a well driller and they acted like I was crazy to blow out a well seems like it was unheard locally.
The well log says it hit water at 40ft but off rough estimation of water line of pipe and a 100ft tape I would guess it is now closer to 30ft.



You could get a well person with a big engine-driven compressor to blow lots of air, and cause a geyser of mud. Done in a few hours, I expect.

You could make an air lift pump if your static water level is high enough. Pump out the mud much slower with a smaller compressor than the geyser, but more than most home compressors. Maybe 8 SCFM. Search it out.

Trash pump only pumps from 25 ft, so no to that.

You could put a 4 inch liner in that. It would have fine slots. Then add "gravel" around the liner that looks more like course sand. Sold for the purpose. Size is important so that most of the gravel cannot make it into the slots.

I am not a pro, and I have not done any of that stuff. I saw the geyser from a 275 cfm compressor once. Impressive.

I skipped to the end. Maybe I will read more later.
 

Reach4

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Your compressor would be probably enough for an air lift pump. I don't know what "6 HP" means for a compressor. Six HP is 4474 watts if the motor is 100% efficient. They make "6 HP" shop vacs that are plugged into a 120v 15 amp circuit, so we know that their having a real 6 HP is impossible. The number you would want to see is CFM or SCFM at 40 psi.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-borehole-supply-in-the-uk.61806/#post-460564 tells of a successful air lift pump. Also search on Youtube for air lift pump.

Do I have to remove the pitman fitting inside the well to sleeve?
If I dig out the pitman fitting is it easy removable or will I need to cut and weld the pipe back together?
The liner comes up just short of the pitless. You would need to dig down outside the casing to remove the pitless.

I have never seen a liner, and am not a pro. Somebody else might provide the info on a liner. 4 inches is big enough.
 

LLigetfa

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If a pump is top fed and there is sediment coming in from above, it can and in your case did bury the motor which then overheats. The solution is to put a flow inducer sleeve on the pump to force the water from above to go past the motor. A flow inducer is common practice on any top fed well even if there is no sediment. When there is sediment, the inducer sleeve is made a few extra feet long so that the flow at the bottom of the sleeve is slow enough to let the sediment drop rather than get sucked up. Of course, over time the sediment will pile up to the point it is up to the bottom of the sleeve and you would need to clean the sediment out.
Sealing the bottom of the casing to keep the sediment out would be the best approach as there could be more than just sediment. There could also be bacteria.
https://www.des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/pip/factsheets/dwgb/documents/dwgb-1-9.pdf
 

Doug Romonovich

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If it had a flow inducer it would of burned up sooner. The old pump is top fed from the side. It lasted so long because it was side fed. Being buried the bottom would have sucked up everything.


If a pump is top fed and there is sediment coming in from above, it can and in your case did bury the motor which then overheats. The solution is to put a flow inducer sleeve on the pump to force the water from above to go past the motor. A flow inducer is common practice on any top fed well even if there is no sediment. When there is sediment, the inducer sleeve is made a few extra feet long so that the flow at the bottom of the sleeve is slow enough to let the sediment drop rather than get sucked up. Of course, over time the sediment will pile up to the point it is up to the bottom of the sleeve and you would need to clean the sediment out.
Sealing the bottom of the casing to keep the sediment out would be the best approach as there could be more than just sediment. There could also be bacteria.
https://www.des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/pip/factsheets/dwgb/documents/dwgb-1-9.pdf
 

Valveman

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If it had a flow inducer it would of burned up sooner. The old pump is top fed from the side. It lasted so long because it was side fed. Being buried the bottom would have sucked up everything.

Yeah but the flow inducer also helps keep the well clean to the bottom of the flow inducer. It is better to let it pump a little mud off the bottom than to let the motor get covered over with mud. When using a flow inducer and a well fills up with mud you will usually notice a lack of flow but the motor would still be good. Without the flow inducer there is full flow right up until the motor gets hot and melts down.

shroud 3 pics sized.jpg
 

LLigetfa

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Being buried the bottom would have sucked up everything.
The pump was eating some sand the whole time it was gradually getting buried as the sand flowed past the intake. Then it ate all the sand when it got buried up to the level of the intake. As Cary said, the only difference is that you might have noticed it before it burned up as opposed to after.
The elongated flow inducer acts as a sand separator, with the coarse sand falling down while fine silt passes through the pump. As that coarse sand builds up to the bottom of the sleeve, it should be coarse enough to let some water through, enough at least to cool the motor.
 

Doug Romonovich

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Good point guys I will be buying the parts to make one shortly.


*update went to lowes this morning and bought the stuff for the air lift pump. They didn't have the well seal to make an inducer. Pulled the well cap off and thought oh shit let me clean the filters before I start. The cap was a little difficult to get off like it had negative pressure holding it down. Figured it was just the seal. First filter had 4-6 inches of sand and rust around the filter was like "Gosh darn golly" my life.

Started cleaning them and the water is crystal clear. Had me perplexed like um wtf.
Think I have a crack or bad joint and the well is sealed so when it pulls it causes negative pressure and pulls shit through the crack.
 

Doug Romonovich

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Here is my third filter I didn't get a chance for 1 or 2

Second is my well

Third is parts i got fir my air lift pump. I already have a 3/8 50 ft hose to use as well. I am also reusing my old 90ft line and adding the 40 from the piece I did when I replaced my pump. I am going to use a cut off tool to dremel slots in the old pump threaded barb fitting to drill so to speak into the muck.


God is pissing on me today and I guess I wouldn't have it any other way. Wish me luck!
 

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Doug Romonovich

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I am going to order a well seal style to attach a 4 foot section of schedule 50 pvc. That way if this doesn't work I am going to go and get a submersible affluent pump and cut v grooves in the bottom and just suck it out that way.


Yeah but the flow inducer also helps keep the well clean to the bottom of the flow inducer. It is better to let it pump a little mud off the bottom than to let the motor get covered over with mud. When using a flow inducer and a well fills up with mud you will usually notice a lack of flow but the motor would still be good. Without the flow inducer there is full flow right up until the motor gets hot and melts down.

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