Removing crusted scale rings around rim holes?

[Pseudonym]

How to remove scale rings that formed around the outside of all the rim holes?

It's a rental house american standard, plain white 'regular' finish toilet. It's still in great condition and flushes well. It was kept clean in general but nothing was done to remove the hard water line and scale rings that formed around the rim holes.

I reamed out the rim holes (not much in there), then ran my pond pump in the bowl and down the overflow tube with a gallon of vinegar for a few hours. This softened a lot of the scale around the rim holes and the water line, I was able to brush away a good bit of it.

Next I buffed the inside of the bowl using a cordless drill with a 2" sanding disk pad affixed with a piece of "wall sand" sanding netting. In just a few minutes the water line ring and 'rivulets' of mineral deposits below the rim holes were gone, the bowl is shiny again and feels smooth to the touch.

This leaves me with removing mineral coating in the 'throat' that I couldn't reach with the sanding pad, and also removing the rings of crusty scale circling the rim holes.

Have you got any tips for cleaning and polishing up these last areas, especially the scale around the rim holes?

 

[Reach4]

A pumice scouring stick is very effective for rings that you can reach.

For the "throat", which I am suspecting is what you call the outlet at the bottom, I would try another gallon or two of vinegar, after removing all of the water. Then pump for a longer time-- maybe overnight. If that does not do it, consider using Iron Out if the staining is rust colored. You could also use a stronger acid if your pump could take it. A solution of phosphoric acid comes to mind.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Pseudonym]

I've had terrible luck with pumice causing scratches, even "Pumie" brand. I'm gentle, keep it wet, etc. but still it scratches. I've been using the wall sand instead for several years, so far it hasn't scratched, knock on wood. (Standard finish plain white toilets. I don't know if wall sand is safe for colored toilets or finishes like Sanigloss.)

By 'throat', I mean the entire exit area of the bowl in vicinity of the bottom siphon jet. What's the term for this narrowed curved waste exit area? This area is not shiny and doesn't feel smooth to the touch. It looks and feels like it's coated with a thin film of scale, similar to the sides of the bowl below the jet holes before I buffed it off with the wall sand.

No rust stains, just hard water scale. I do have several other acids I could try with the pond pump (it's an inexpensive one and easily replaced).

I'm still trying to figure out a 'wall sand drum sander' attachment for the dremel, I know the dremel can get in there if I can fashion one.

Thanks again

 

[Reach4]

I tried to send a message on phosphoric acid, but you have that blocked.

 

[Pseudonym]

The acids I have available:

Professional's Choice Fast-Acting Phosphoric Acid Cleaner
ZEP Acidic Toilet Bowl Cleaner (10% hydrochloric acid, citric acid)
Tilelab Sulfamic Acid Cleaner
Citric Acid powder
Vinegar
Lime Away
CLR
15% Hydrochloric Acid (swimming pool muriatic)
DBSA Glass water stain remover (dodecylbenzylsulfonic acid) - this is in a mildly abrasive cleanser base

 

[Reach4]

Professional's Choice Fast-Acting Phosphoric Acid Cleaner

How strong? See its MSDS. Compare that with http://www.kleanstrip.com/uploads/documents/GKPA30220_SDS-401.5.pdf

 

[Jadnashua]

Do not use an abrasive cleaner on high-tech glazes like CEFIONTECT (recently renamed) on any toilet or risk defeating its functionality.

 

[Pseudonym]

MSDS doesn't state the concentration, that I can see.

 

[Reach4]

section 3 says Phosphoric acid {Orthophosphoric acid} 35.0 -45.0 %

Of the cleaners you have already tried, which seems most effective?

 

[Pseudonym]

So coming back to my question, does anyone have any (preferably labor saving!) good ways to remove the scale crust especially around the rim holes? Tired of scrubbing...

 

[Pseudonym]

Of the cleaners you have already tried, which seems most effective?

The wall sand by far.

 

[Reach4]

A hand truck..

I was thinking your pump system was effective, and would be better with a stronger chemical. A brass wire brush sounds like a good supplement too.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I would have spent 250 on a new toilet before i would invest hours in trying to make an old one look nice.

 

[Pseudonym]

A hand truck..

I was thinking your pump system was effective, and would be better with a stronger chemical. A brass wire brush sounds like a good supplement too.

Wouldn't a wire brush scratch or mar the surface?

 

[Pseudonym]

I would have spent 250 on a new toilet before i would invest hours in trying to make an old one look nice.

It looks really nice, shiny and clean and works great. Except for under the rim, the scale there is white and visible if you look. The 'throat' you can't see any scale (it's also white) while it's under water. But I can feel it.

I don't want to buy a new toilet because this one looks pretty darn good though not like new. I also don't want to invest hours trying to get rid of the scale, which is why I posted here...

 

[Reach4]

Wouldn't a wire brush scratch or mar the surface?

Steel would leave marks. Brass is softer than steel. While I guess it would not mar, I guess I can't be sure. I would use a magnet to make sure the brush is not brass-plated steel.

You have to use a mirror to see the holes, don't you?

 

[Pseudonym]

Yes I can see the holes.

 

[Plumbs Away]

How to remove scale rings that formed around the outside of all the rim holes?

It's a rental house american standard, plain white 'regular' finish toilet. It's still in great condition and flushes well. It was kept clean in general but nothing was done to remove the hard water line and scale rings that formed around the rim holes.

I reamed out the rim holes (not much in there), then ran my pond pump in the bowl and down the overflow tube with a gallon of vinegar for a few hours. This softened a lot of the scale around the rim holes and the water line, I was able to brush away a good bit of it.

Next I buffed the inside of the bowl using a cordless drill with a 2" sanding disk pad affixed with a piece of "wall sand" sanding netting. In just a few minutes the water line ring and 'rivulets' of mineral deposits below the rim holes were gone, the bowl is shiny again and feels smooth to the touch.

This leaves me with removing mineral coating in the 'throat' that I couldn't reach with the sanding pad, and also removing the rings of crusty scale circling the rim holes.

Have you got any tips for cleaning and polishing up these last areas, especially the scale around the rim holes?

Get a gallon of "green" muriatic acid from the hardware store or home center. With the area well ventilated and protecting your skin, pour half a gallon through a funnel into the overflow tube of the flush valve. Wait 30 minutes to an hour and then scrub the bowl thoroughly with a regular toilet brush, paying special attention to the "throat," siphon jet and rim jet areas. Flush away the grunge to a sparkling bowl!

If you're on septic, stuff an old towel as far as possible into the trap of the toilet to absorb the excess acid and prevent it from being flush down in any substantial quantity.

 

[Pseudonym]

Get a gallon of "green" muriatic acid from the hardware store or home center. With the area well ventilated and protecting your skin, pour half a gallon through a funnel into the overflow tube of the flush valve. Wait 30 minutes to an hour and then scrub the bowl thoroughly with a regular toilet brush, paying special attention to the "throat," siphon jet and rim jet areas. Flush away the grunge to a sparkling bowl!

If you're on septic, stuff an old towel as far as possible into the trap of the toilet to absorb the excess acid and prevent it from being flush down in any substantial quantity.

Thanks, Plumbs Away.

No septic, but I always use baking soda to neutralize before flushing.

Are you talking 30% HCl? What I have on hand is 15%, it did remove a bit more but lots is still there, especially under the rim. I went back frequently and used a paint brush to rewet the crusting under the rim too.

I haven't seen 30% HCl in years, but I admit I haven't specifically looked for it. I'll go looking if you think that strength will make the difference?

 

[Reach4]

http://www.kleanstrip.com/product/green-muriatic-acid says "...
Klean Strip® Green™ Muriatic Acid ...contains 20% Hydrochloric acid."

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Smart-2x1-Gallon-Muriatic-Acid-2118-HD/100119310 is 31.5%
Very dangerous fumes.