Removing cast iron closet flange- is there such a thing as one piece flange/bend?

[buckyswider]

Hi all, continuing on my powder room renovation which started as "wallpapering & new vanity"...

Have to replace some rotted subfloor noticed after removing the toilet. After surgically removing all the rotted subfloor (there's staple-up radiant heat below, which means the subfloor needed to be removed VERY carefully), I noticed that that cast iron flange is broken. Not at the typical closet bolt slot, but the lip is broken off the front. And with a new finish floor (replacing hardwood with ceramic or marble tile), the flange needs to be replaced.

I've watched dozens of videos so far, and I'm now deathly afraid of breaking the closet bend pipe while removing the flange. But before I proceed, there's one thing that's really throwing me off. It seems to be a leaded in flange; however, when I reach underneath the flange, I expected to feel the oakum underneath between the flange and the pipe. However, to me it feels like one solid cast iron piece- no interruption in feel between the flange, pipe, and the small ledge between. Looking under with an inspection camera and I also can't ascertain any difference in materials between the three areas.

So before I start hammering, drilling, or sawing, I wanted to make sure I haven't stumbled upon some odd duck where the bend and flange are one piece, or something else as equally as odd. I know that replacing the flange is ultimately the best in the long run, but I guess if push comes to shove I could somehow use a spanner flange to shore up the broken front lip, and then use one of the known methods to compensate for a height difference if it ends up that the new finish floor is a different height than the old.

Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

I suggest you post a photo of your flange.

Also, how high is the surface of the existing flange with respect to the finished floor surface?

Cast iron is attracted to a magnet. Brass and lead are not.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Breplum]

The leaded-in flange is separate, never cast as one piece of cast iron.

 

[buckyswider]

Thanks guys! Good tip Reach4. Both the flange and the pipe are magnetic. So I guess they're definitely cast iron?

Great info breplum, just wanted to make sure that thing never existed. Because if something out of the ordinary ever was built, it was put into this 'ol house and one time or another! I felt under the rim with a probe, and there's definitely a lip of underneath the flange. I *do* think I can feel a small crevice between that lip and the pipe. Is "impact" (i.e. hammering) a safe way to go here, or should I try to cut away the cast flange with a multitool/sawzall etc.?

 

[buckyswider]

Oh, and I'm still unsure of the final height of the finish floor. My "designer" still hasn't finalized the final choice, and I'm having a tile guy come out next week, and he'll evaluate whether hardi-board, or that orange stuff in a roll, luan, or either nothing (doubtful) is required on the subfloor. (Hiring out the tile work because the guy is the friend, and it look like we're gonna end up with "penny tiles", which seem like way to much work to trim properly, at least for me).

 

[Reach4]

So do you want to keep that, because the closet bolts are intact and it is at a good height? Or do you want to remove the leaded-in flange and put on a new flange? If new flange, you will want to measure the OD of the pipe, and how far below the floor the top of that pipe is.

I understand these are questions you are asking, but some of them require info from you.

To measure the pipe OD, I would use a "long reach" digital caliper, but you can measure the circumference with a sewing tape measure, and divide by pi. If the OD is about 4.5 inches, and if you want to remove the old flange, I would consider a Code Blue closet flange. They come in various heights. I am not a pro.

Not removing has obvious advantages. If you remove, you will vacuum out the crud around your bowl used as a stopper. You will scrape/pick out other debris, until you see lead. When you scrape/cut lead, it is shiny. You will drill out lead in at least one area, and you will try to pry out the rest with a flat blade screwdriver.

 

[buckyswider]

Thanks again. It may be a character flaw of mine, but wherever historical integrity is not important, my strong instinct is always to "replace".

The pipe is 4-1/2" OD it appears. I'll get a better measurement once I get the flange off. Guess I'll start vacuuming, poking, and scraping and ultimately drilling! (p.s., didn't take much to get to the shiny lead!).

Oh, I have as much southbound clearance as I need- that thing that butts up to the pipe will all the detritus on top of it is only silver bubble insulation.