remodelling and used Sharkbite/equivalent push fit but should I keep them??

[MCU]

Hi,

We purchased a 15 year old home that was all copper and had to redo/cap a lot of the plumbing due to division changes. I used pexso had to use sharkbite connector to transition from copper to pex. All is fine and nothing leaks, but then I read online how many people think that in 5-15 years I will have problems with the orings leaking. This is kind of made me panic and now wondering if I should redo it all with a sweat connector to transition and brass fittings with pex clam tool which i have already.

Is it some plumbers saying they will ruin because it's killing their business and trying to scare off people or have people seen this already?

I even did my shower valves using the sharkbites which is great because I did not need to remove the gaskets in the valves to solder.

What should I do? This is my personal home and even though I may not be here in 10-15 years, what if I am and one place starts leaking at a time

 

[Terry]

PVC isn't legal inside the home. It should have been CPVC pipe.

Most plumbers don't use Sharkbites except in certain circumstances. We feel a lot safer using soldered fittings, and they cost us quite a bit less. Also, the Shark bites are not rigid, like a soldered joint.
As far as them failing later, they are a new product, and we "will" know more in the years to come. That's how we all learn.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I have no faith in them for the long term but then again I've been told that I am a dinosaur when it comes to new plumbing products.

 

[MCU]

Sorry I meant pex...not PVC. I used PEX

i guess PEX brass fittings are much safer than sharkbite, but then I would have to sweat to go from copper to PVC, right?

 

[Chefwong]

Sorry to take this thread off topic but this on the comments and sharkbite and *moving fittings*, why not the same reproach with Wirsbo / Pex.
I was pretty surprised that even though it forms a compression...it moves on the fitting.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

That is surprising isn't it but it's supposed to and according to Uponor is just fine.

 

[Chefwong]

Correct. What I meant in the context of the OP, and Sharkbites, alot of the older thread responses from pro plumbers infer that they don't prefer a fitting that moves.

At the same token, and while PEX is not legal for potable water yet in my part of town........for those that run PEX all day long, they love it over copper.

I suppose the same token can be said about ROMEX®. I grew up running BX and as long as BX is available, I'm running BX and will only use ROMEX® when doing a multiple run of LV stuff between a transformer and undercab lighting .

 

[Gary in NJ]

More then likely, the Sharkbite fitting will be fine. I prefer to use a sweated brass PEX fitting to the copper, but there are times when a Sharkbite is the right answer to the problem (I've used them in spots where it was awkward to get a torch). I wouldn't loose sleep over it. 15-20 years from now, if you hear water running behind the wall or see a water spot you'll have an inclination as to the problem. Until such time, move on.

 

[MCU]

brass fittings dont have that o-ring though. I am not worried about the fitting moving. I've seen brass fittings that move yet don't leak at all. It's that o-ring that's got me thinking. can water really deteriorate an oring? I mean it happens on a hose in the back yard but it's also exposed to sun, movement, etc

 

[Gary in NJ]

The brass fitting is 3/4 one one side that gets soldiered to the copper; on the other side is a PEX barb fitting that you crimp the PEX to.

No need for an o-ring.

 

[MCU]

that's the fitting to sweat to copper from pex. I was talking about the o-ring in the sharkbite...sorry for the confusion

also in places there was 3/4" copper going from the main to one half of the house. I had to remove a bunch or splits on that line because we will not use them anymore and replaced it in between the two copper with 3/4" pex. I read tonight that 3/4" copper is almost equivalent to 1" pex. Will I have a big reduction in flow rate that might affect every day operation in the house like washing clothes, dishwasher and shower at once because of the 3/4" pex?

 

[MTcummins]

Sharkbites are junk. They "might" not fail, but probably will eventually, and far sooner than a copper sweat connection or properly done Pex connection. I would definitely replace those sharkbites, at least if they're burried inside walls. If its in an unfinished basement or other fairly easily exposed location, maybe let them go until they're a problem. If it were me, I'd just go ahead and replace them all though. I keep a few sharkbite caps on hand that i use for temporary capping of lines rather than sweating on caps, this is especially helpful if the line won't stop dripping water, such as in the case of a bad shutoff valve. However, these never stay on, just there temporarily while I'm re-routing lines or something. They're great for this application, but that's all I'll use them for.

I've seen 2 leaks on fitted sharkbites, and I've been on one site for repairs where one had blown off, right in the middle of a ceiling. What a mess. They're simply not worth it.

As far as 3/4" copper being equivalent to 1" Pex, this sounds like old plumbers scare tactics to keep people paying top dollar for copper installation. The dimensions are I.D., so its an equivalent amount of water passing through each line. If anything the copper's flow rate will be very slightly reduced by the sheer number of fittings, compared to a Pex homerun system. The one place where things do get a little dicey with pex, is that the fittings go inside the pipe, so the fittings are smaller than the pipe (as opposed to copper fittings which are outside the pipe and therefore do not reduce its I.D.), but this effect is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, as Pex has very few fittings. Unless your water pressure is very low, you shouldn't notice any real difference. Long term, Pex will outperform copper in flow rate, as the copper lines will get all corroded and scaled up inside, and the Pex will not. This is why you get black water out of your faucets in an old house if you turn off the water and relieve the pressure, then turn it back on. All that junk was/is in your copper pipes.

To each his own on the Pex vs copper debate. Both have their advantages and disadvantages, and both are good options. Sharkbites, however, are not good options, and I think history will prove this many more times in the future, at a huge cost to the homeowners who have them installed in their houses.

 

[Jadnashua]

The keys to reliable use of Sharkbites relies on you actually following the instructions. IF you debur the pipe and pre-mark it, then insert it fully, it will NOT come off until you take it off. If you don't debur the end, you may damage the o-ring, and it will be harder to insert past the o-ring. If you don't mark it first, you may not realize it was not fully inserted.

 

[MTcummins]

In theory, this is correct. I've seen them fail when properly installed, and therefore won't use them. I didn't install the one that blew off, so not sure if it was installed correctly. Its possible it wasn't, but I wouldn't be that surprised if it was installed correctly. I don't buy that it is impossible for a correctly installed sharkbite to come off, though granted it wouldn't happen easily. Too much opportunity for manufacturers error in those things that could cause big problems.

Even if you get the pipe perfect, it can still damage the o-ring. Even if you don't damage the O-ring, it will eventually fail on its own (as will pretty much any connection, but look at the history of rubber washers etc... their failure rate is much higher and much shorter time between failures than sweat or pex fittings). I'll stick with non-rubber connections.

If you want to bury an inferior (even when 100% properly done, its still inferior) connection inside a finished wall, go for it. I'll never use one anywhere in my own home, or in a client's home. I'll never advise a homeowner who isn't comfortable doing a proper fitting to use one in a concealed (finished) space. If in an unfinished basement where it will do far less damage when it fails, I still advise that its not the best choice, but if you must use one, use it there.

Do it right the first time and don't worry about it. Or do it the easy way now and fix it in 10 years, along with all the other finishes that it destroyed in the process. Seems an obvious choice to me.

 

[Dlarrivee]

Sharkbites have their place.

I like them for emergency use.

I also like them for capping off a copper line that I plan to add onto later (next weekend, etc.).

 

[MTcummins]

Exactly. These are temporary uses, and I use them for that as well. They're great for some of those uses, especially the caps.

Long term, I wouldn't have one in my house anywhere.

 

[Jadnashua]

Humm, while generally no pressure, a no-hub connector's seal is rubber, and those things last forever, or at least until they're moved. O-rings tend to go bad when in contact with corrosives or through wear. Inside the fitting, things are pretty stationary and protected.

 

[Dlarrivee]

I like them, but wouldn't bury them in a wall unless it wasn't practical to use torch at all. Too expensive to use them everywhere.

 

[MCU]

but lets say we forget about price...as jadnashua said, since they don't move once set, how would they wear?

 

[Dlarrivee]

They wouldn't randomly wear out.

If you ask the same question in 10 or 20 years when they're more proven, you'd get different answers I bet.

This is typical old-school vs. new stubbornness you're hearing.