Remediating broken main sewer line: is underneath my driveway a septic leach field now?

[MrTacos]

I had a backup in my bathroom the other day. Someone came out to rooter it and said there was some places where the line was broken and that it should be replaced or relined. So I've been reading a lot of posts about the trenchless options, digging up the driveway, CIPP, etc.

The one thing I don't understand is, if there are sections of the pipe where the pipe is broken, for instance, where the roots have penetrated the walls, then hasn't whatever we flush down the toilets been leaking out of this pipe? When you do a trenchless replacement, does all that stuff just stay where it was? In my case, under my driveway?

I also haven't seen people mentioning that this is a downside of trenchless vs. digging (I would really prefer to avoid digging up my driveway and street), but if I'm going to fix it I'd rather fix it right.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Old concrete and clay tile sewer pipes and their connections do leak a little as they age.. and a little is acceptable... its just when they leak a lot which is not acceptable. Pretty vague. But essentially its not a problem til its a problem.

Lining or bursting pipes are the 2 most common trenchless (if not the only 2) options for replacing busted concrete pipes. Just have to be very careful to make sure every branch into that sewer is accounted for. Even pipes that have minor sags in them both options are acceptable because the wall surfaces become smooth and seamless which keeps clogs from occuring (mostly). Almost all the connections in our area that go to the street are lined from the property line in order to avoid expensive Right Of Way work.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Rufflesinc]

normally if they suspect broken pipe, they will offer to do a camera inspection , whether included or extra charge, and that will tell you the extent of the problem. No need to guess. You would need a decent size break in the pipe for the solids to seep out ...

 

[John Gayewski]

Dirt is poop, dead animals/plants, live animals plants, rocks, and poop. Adding sewer to it doesn't hurt it. It's when the ground water becomes infested with harmful bacteria that it becomes a problem. If you fix the problem the rest will take care of itself.

Sewer lining is a great technology it's very expensive in our area, but they can do some amazing things with it.

 

[Sylvan]

normally if they suspect broken pipe, they will offer to do a camera inspection , whether included or extra charge, and that will tell you the extent of the problem. No need to guess. You would need a decent size break in the pipe for the solids to seep out ...

The Grand canyon was created by a trickle of water which overtime caused the amazing views we have today

Florida and other locations have cave-ins as the surface is undermined and these tiny leak cause sink holes

When doing a roughing inspection I think most civilized places require an integrity test and unless the inspector is paid off ( A cause to lose the license) so if there is a "tiny leak" we fail the inspection same with a "tiny gas leak"

 

[Reach4]

1. What material is the leaking pipe?
2. You think this problem extends below the street? That is a big deal. What you might do is to replace up to the street, and add a cleanout to make any potential under-street future clog easy to clean. Plus, the cleanout can serve as a test port to see if there is standing water. If no standing water at the cleanout while you have a backup, then the clog is upstream.
3. Your sewer may not be that deep compared to colder places. If you get a slice of concrete sawed out of your driveway, and then remove dirt to replace clay pipe with plastic pipe will be not that hard comparatively. Give thought to the yard. A bursting messes up less of the yard.

If digging, the profile of your soil is something to consider. If you have clay below the topsoil, you don't want any clay to end up on top. Grass will not grow on clay. So in that case, you would want tarps on each side of a hand-dug ditch. Topsoil and sod on one side, and clay on the other.

There will be settling over the years. If you have clay tile, it is common for them to put in plastic pipe, put the old clay tile on top of that, and cover the hole with dirt. I think it would be better for the old clay pipe to be hauled away. I think it would be good to have some of the clay hauled away. Hauling away costs you, but not as much as trying to remediate later I think. Then in a year or two, if you have a sunken path, you add topsoil to fill that in, and top it with sod or grass seed. The subsidence can be reduced a lot if the laborers compact the soil with sledgehammers as the trench is refilled.

On the other hand, if you have desert landscaping covered with rock, clay on top is not a problem.

I wonder what typical bursting costs. Sounds cool.

And the camera is a really good idea. Some people will exaggerate a problem to drum up business. Many play it straight, but the low-cost teaser cleaner would probably be more inclined to view the cleaning as a loss leader to get the expensive job.

 

[John Gayewski]

The one thing I don't understand is, if there are sections of the pipe where the pipe is broken, for instance, where the roots have penetrated the walls, then hasn't whatever we flush down the toilets been leaking out of this pipe? When you do a trenchless replacement, does all that stuff just stay where it was? In my case, under my driveway?

The Grand canyon was created by a trickle of water which overtime caused the amazing views we have today

Florida and other locations have cave-ins as the surface is undermined and these tiny leak cause sink holes

When doing a roughing inspection I think most civilized places require an integrity test and unless the inspector is paid off ( A cause to lose the license) so if there is a "tiny leak" we fail the inspection same with a "tiny gas leak"

The question was, what happens to the stuff that has been leaking, the question was not whether or not a leak is acceptable.

 

[Reach4]

When you do a trenchless replacement, does all that stuff just stay where it was? In my case, under my driveway?

Liquid will move away, and solids will mostly decompose with time. Not a problem. Remember a lot of people use septic tanks with septic fields.

 

[Sylvan]

Dirt is poop, dead animals/plants, live animals plants, rocks, and poop. Adding sewer to it doesn't hurt it. It's when the ground water becomes infested with harmful bacteria that it becomes a problem. If you fix the problem the rest will take care of itself.

Sewer lining is a great technology it's very expensive in our area, but they can do some amazing things with it.

What do you consider "very expensive"

I would think relining where it is legal is still cheaper then replacement

It is all relative what one considers expensive. 93 octane is expensive when compared to 87

 

[Reach4]

https://www.trictools.com/sewer-pipe-line-repair-relining-versus-pipe-bursting/ gives some numbers.

I would think that Los Angeles sewers may not be that deep, so digging may be less expensive, even after yard, or even driveway, fixing.

We still don't know what material the existing pipes are. I would be suspicious of lining Orangeburg.

I would also think that the lining would require that the pipe be not partially crushed. Bursting, I don't know if some level of crushing would be OK. They both sound like nice ways.

 

[John Gayewski]

What do you consider "very expensive"

I would think relining where it is legal is still cheaper then replacement

It is all relative what one considers expensive. 93 octane is expensive when compared to 87

The people that came and did one for us charged 18k for 60' of lining. That's a little high considering they were just cleaning and lining from the accessible points we gave them.