Regulator for gas grills

[Rdbishop999]

I am having an outdoor kitchen installed and I have multiple appliances to hook up. One is a dual infrared burner rated at 30,000 BTU and the other is a 5 burner grill rated at a total of 86,000 BTU. Do I need two regulators or will one regulator and a manifold do the trick. All my in home appliances are served by one regulator and a 6 output manifold. The outdoor kitchen is on a separate gas line branch. My plumber wants me to purchase two regulators and I really do not think this is necessary. It seems to me that a single regulator and a manifold would do the trick.

 

[Sylvan]

I agree with your licensed plumber

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Rdbishop999]

I agree with your licensed plumber

I don't mind that you agreed with my plumber but please explain yourself. I have 6 appliances in my house all with their own gas line back to a manifold that has a single regulator on the input side. If I had purchased a cart grill with the infrared burner included, it would only need one regulator. What's the difference?

 

[John Gayewski]

Let's you you talk him into doing it your way and it causes some problems with your other gas appliances. Are you going to fix it?

 

[Rdbishop999]

Let's you you talk him into doing it your way and it causes some problems with your other gas appliances. Are you going to fix it?

The other appliances in my house are on their own branch line so whatever I do on the branch containing my outdoor kitchen will have no effect on them. What I am finding in my research is that most plumbers, including mine, do not fully understand gas plumbing. A stand alone gas grill contains multiple burners and side burners and they only require one regulator. This is true because all the burners require the same gas pressure. In my case, I have two separate devices that contain the same total number of burners and total BTUs as the same brand of stand alone cart gas grill and both devices require the same gas pressure so why would there be a need for two regulators? I would like to have a reply from a licensed gas fitter. Buying a 2nd regulator is no big deal but I do not want to buy one if there is not factual or legal basis for having to doing so.

 

[John Gayewski]

The other appliances in my house are on their own branch line so whatever I do on the branch containing my outdoor kitchen will have no effect on them. What I am finding in my research is that most plumbers, including mine, do not fully understand gas plumbing. A stand alone gas grill contains multiple burners and side burners and they only require one regulator. This is true because all the burners require the same gas pressure. In my case, I have two separate devices that contain the same total number of burners and total BTUs as the same brand of stand alone cart gas grill and both devices require the same gas pressure so why would there be a need for two regulators? I would like to have a reply from a licensed gas fitter. Buying a 2nd regulator is no big deal but I do not want to buy one if there is not factual or legal basis for having to doing so.

I am a licensed gas fitter. You aren't I can tell by your response. Your gas supply is all taken from one source. If you deplete that source with a load All of the other sources are depleted.

 

[John Gayewski]

The other appliances in my house are on their own branch line so whatever I do on the branch containing my outdoor kitchen will have no effect on them. What I am finding in my research is that most plumbers, including mine, do not fully understand gas plumbing. A stand alone gas grill contains multiple burners and side burners and they only require one regulator. This is true because all the burners require the same gas pressure. In my case, I have two separate devices that contain the same total number of burners and total BTUs as the same brand of stand alone cart gas grill and both devices require the same gas pressure so why would there be a need for two regulators? I would like to have a reply from a licensed gas fitter. Buying a 2nd regulator is no big deal but I do not want to buy one if there is not factual or legal basis for having to doing so.

Your house was piped by a plumber that doesn't understand gas supply. The manifold system is a hack for someone who doesn't know how to size gas systems. Another hack is running high pressure gas to a home and then putting a regulator on everything. Most plumbing projects pricing doesn't include a full system sizing so many professionals will regulate each line and tap in on the supply side. It's common.

 

[John Gayewski]

Your pressure before the regulator would be the determining factor as to your other appliances and your new addition. Btu's are equal to cu ft of nat gas. More btu's you need more cu. ft of gas. If there's a large pressure drop from an appliance it will effect pilot lights elsewhere. Just turning a gas valve on too quickly is enough to extinguish a pilot light on a water heater.

 

[Rdbishop999]

Your pressure before the regulator would be the determining factor as to your other appliances and your new addition. Btu's are equal to cu ft of nat gas. More btu's you need more cu. ft of gas. If there's a large pressure drop from an appliance it will effect pilot lights elsewhere. Just turning a gas valve on too quickly is enough to extinguish a pilot light on a water heater.

I appreciate your replies and I agree with you on many of your points. You have affirmed what I said about plumbers not fully understanding the fundamentals of gas plumbing. At the same time, if using a manifold is a "hack", city inspectors must be as inept as the plumber that installed the system because just about every home in the neighborhood that I live in was built by one of two builders who both probably were using the same contractors. I recently had an larger meter installed in anticipation of installing the outdoor kitchen. My current meter, according the local gas company that installed it, is capable of delivering 900,000 BTU which far exceeds the total BTUs of all my appliances should they all ever be running at once (extremely unlikely) so I do not believe supply is an issue. My only question is if my plumber puts a regulator on a line to a manifold or tee that serves two appliances with the same pressure requirement, will the appliances function properly?

 

[Rdbishop999]

Your pressure before the regulator would be the determining factor as to your other appliances and your new addition. Btu's are equal to cu ft of nat gas. More btu's you need more cu. ft of gas. If there's a large pressure drop from an appliance it will effect pilot lights elsewhere. Just turning a gas valve on too quickly is enough to extinguish a pilot light on a water heater.

One other thing, I also have a 333,000 BTU pool heater installed and I have never had my water heater pilot light go out.

 

[John Gayewski]

I appreciate your replies and I agree with you on many of your points. You have affirmed what I said about plumbers not fully understanding the fundamentals of gas plumbing. At the same time, if using a manifold is a "hack", city inspectors must be as inept as the plumber that installed the system because just about every home in the neighborhood that I live in was built by one of two builders who both probably were using the same contractors. I recently had an larger meter installed in anticipation of installing the outdoor kitchen. My current meter, according the local gas company that installed it, is capable of delivering 900,000 BTU which far exceeds the total BTUs of all my appliances should they all ever be running at once (extremely unlikely) so I do not believe supply is an issue. My only question is if my plumber puts a regulator on a line to a manifold or tee that serves two appliances with the same pressure requirement, will the appliances function properly?

Your asking a specific question and providing general information.

The inspector signs off on things that are legal. A manifold system is legal.

Once again your supply pressure is the determining factor. Where he wants to tap in relative to your other appliances is another. How much pipe, what size?

Your going a long way to prove a bad theory.

 

[John Gayewski]

One other thing, I also have a 333,000 BTU pool heater installed and I have never had my water heater pilot light go out.

This is has no point.

 

[John Gayewski]

Your theory that plumbers don't understand gas supply systems is not correct. It's complicated and requires specific information. There are ways to circumvent needing to go through the whole process. That's what most do. Once again if you want it to work guaranteed and you want a competitive price to do the work that is what most plumbers will do.

A better theory is most homeowners don't want to pay for work that's not necessary. An hour of your plumbers time is probably worth more than a regulator.

 

[Rdbishop999]

Your asking a specific question and providing general information.

The inspector signs off on things that are legal. A manifold system is legal.

Once again your supply pressure is the determining factor. Where he wants to tap in relative to your other appliances is another. How much pipe, what size?

Your going a long way to prove a bad theory.

I am not trying to prove a theory. I have read all the gas pipe sizing charts and watched presentations on sizing pipe for a typical home installation and basically I have determined, that at least in theory, all my piping is undersized but everything functions normally so there is obviously a difference between theory and reality. And you are correct, I do not want to pay for something that is not necessary.

 

[WorthFlorida]

All gas appliances need a regular that is designed for its own BTU requirement. A 30K BTU gas grill regulator will not be the same as for the 86K BTU grill. Regulators for gas grills and burners/fryers have a required safety device that shunts down the gas flow. It's shunted, not shut off. When a sudden drop of gas pressure past the regulator occurs, the gas flow will be mostly be reduced to a pilot light level. Before this safety requirement, (those old grills that used the left hand threaded fitting), if the hose accidentally broke loose, or was burned and melted apart, the hose would turn into the blow torch. A few homes burned down that way. The new regulator (about 1996 or so) will close off the flow and the flame would be reduced. A small gas flow is wanted so the flame does not travel up the hose to the propane tank or other source.

It's all about safety. If a plumber created a manifold to just use one regulator and something happens where someone was burned or injured, your lawyer will go after anyone that touched that pipe. Sylvan, the first expert master plumber to respond to your post, is an expert witness for plumbing and heating disasters, usually where someone has been seriously burned, scared for life, etc., from scalding hot water.

 

[James Henry]

I'm pretty confident that all appliances need a regulator. all appliances demand certain pressures to operate properly.
google the manuals for all the appliances you have in your house, I would be surprised if they didn't have regulators built in to them.

 

[John Gayewski]

I'm pretty confident that all appliances need a regulator. all appliances demand certain pressures to operate properly.
google the manuals for all the appliances you have in your house, I would be surprised if they didn't have regulators built in to them.

They do

 

[Sylvan]

All gas appliances need a regular that is designed for its own BTU requirement. A 30K BTU gas grill regulator will not be the same as for the 86K BTU grill. Regulators for gas grills and burners/fryers have a required safety device that shunts down the gas flow. It's shunted, not shut off. When a sudden drop of gas pressure past the regulator occurs, the gas flow will be mostly be reduced to a pilot light level. Before this safety requirement, (those old grills that used the left hand threaded fitting), if the hose accidentally broke loose, or was burned and melted apart, the hose would turn into the blow torch. A few homes burned down that way. The new regulator (about 1996 or so) will close off the flow and the flame would be reduced. A small gas flow is wanted so the flame does not travel up the hose to the propane tank or other source.

It's all about safety. If a plumber created a manifold to just use one regulator and something happens where someone was burned or injured, your lawyer will go after anyone that touched that pipe. Sylvan, the first expert master plumber to respond to your post, is an expert witness for plumbing and heating disasters, usually where someone has been seriously burned, scared for life, etc., from scalding hot water.

If someone one does not trust their plumber and second guesses all the expert opinions and expects to be a "plumber -gas fitter" on a DIY

"Good luck, have a great life and hopefully your decision will not kill or maim anyone"

TIP JAR for Saint Jude's children's hospital