Recovering a stuck pump, and using 220 line to make a 220 and 110 outlets at pumphouse. Thanks

[hygron]

Hey all, and hello to old friends. I need some help, so instead of continuing to search, I decided to pick the brains of the good people who support Terry's forum.

2 related topics.
1. I have a buried 220 line of 100' going to well. I want to insert a power box connecting a 220-240 plug and a 110 receptacle to allow me the option of adding a light or heater in the pump house. Can someone turn me onto a drawing, image or diagram to follow?

2. I recently replaced my almost new submersible jet pump with a new pump, and I got the new 4" pump stuck in the well casing due to mineral buildup. i have tried a couple ideas in order to free it, to no avail. I have a couple options we have not tried due to horrific Winter weather, but now it is warming up and I need to get on with it. I need to hook up the power and run the pump tin an attempt to free it with several start ups, but I need to rewire my electric supply. Any ideas? Perhaps someone can suggest something that I have not thought of.

The pump is stuck approx. 10' down, but I have to be careful, because I have little money available for repair of the casing if it gets damaged.
thanks guys. So glad you all kept the place going. Peace, Roger.

p.s. I need to change my email and login credentials as I no longer own the domain I registered under. I am legally blind and did not find the option/s to make the change. Thanks

 

[Reach4]

Hello Rodger.

Do you have a 4-inch PVC (4.5 inch OD) casing or what?

What is connected to the pump? 1 inch (1.90 inches OD) PVC or what?

Is this schedule 80 PVC pipe screwed into PVC or stainless couplings? Or is it schedule 40 with glued couplings?

What lifting force have you applied? Pulling by hand? Some other method?

. I have a buried 220 line of 100' going to well. I want to insert a power box connecting a 220-240 plug and a 110 receptacle to allow me the option of adding a light or heater in the pump house. Can someone turn me onto a drawing, image or diagram to follow?

You would need a neutral wire. Normally you would run 3 wires plus a ground for that. Another possibility is to find a 240 volt light and small heater.

Is the pressure switch in the pump house with the pressure tank?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[RetiredInGueydan]

That pump stuck 10' down must be submerged in water before you apply power to start. I would abandon that idea and pour a gallon of Walmart pool chlorine down around the pump with a 24hr soak time. This should loosen the mineral deposits above the pump and allow removal.

 

[Bannerman]

I have a buried 220 line of 100' going to well. I want to insert a power box connecting a 220-240 plug and a 110 receptacle to allow me the option of adding a light or heater in the pump house. Can someone turn me onto a drawing, image or diagram to follow?

- What was the original planned purpose for running the 220 volt line?
- What gauge of wire was installed?
- What is the Amp rating for the duplex circuit breaker that is supplying power to the 100' line to the well?
- How many amps does the well pump draw?
- How many amps will your intended heater draw?
- Were only 2-wires installed, or are additional wires also installed?

 

[Fitter30]

With the two hot wires 240 vac and ground would need a transformer 240x120vac. Amps you like to have available and there not cheap , Unless you happen to run a forth wire for a neutral.

 

[hygron]

Hello Rodger.

Do you have a 4-inch PVC (4.5 inch OD) casing or what?

What is connected to the pump? 1 inch (1.90 inches OD) PVC or what?

Is this schedule 80 PVC pipe screwed into PVC or stainless couplings? Or is it schedule 40 with glued couplings?

What lifting force have you applied? Pulling by hand? Some other method?


You would need a neutral wire. Normally you would run 3 wires plus a ground for that. Another possibility is to find a 240 volt light and small heater.

Is the pressure switch in the pump house with the pressure tank?

Well casing is 4". Pump is 4"pump that is actually 3.75"
1" black pvc flexible water pipe. I pulled by hand, I added leverage using a curved 2.25" square pipe. I also set up a pro ladder and hooked a ratchet strap and left tension on the safety line

 

[hygron]

That pump stuck 10' down must be submerged in water before you apply power to start. I would abandon that idea and pour a gallon of Walmart pool chlorine down around the pump with a 24hr soak time. This should loosen the mineral deposits above the pump and allow removal.

I know you cannot run a pump that is not in water. I never said that. I am at least 6' deep in water, so I was going to start/stop it as long as the water was not sucked out. Once water level dropped to pump, I was going to stop procedure.

 

[hygron]

- What was the original planned purpose for running the 220 volt line?
- What gauge of wire was installed?
- What is the Amp rating for the duplex circuit breaker that is supplying power to the 100' line to the well?
- How many amps does the well pump draw?
- How many amps will your intended heater draw?
- Were only 2-wires installed, or are additional wires also installed?

Line was buried to run the well pump. I beleive it is 12, but I have not huaged it.I will guage it tomorrow to confirm. breaker is brand new 30 amp. PLenty of amps. Pump does not pull more than 11-13 I believe. heater or watever, will not draw more than 7-10. There are 3 conductors. Bl, Wh, Green

 

[hygron]

With the two hot wires 240 vac and ground would need a transformer 240x120vac. Amps you like to have available and there not cheap , Unless you happen to run a forth wire for a neutral.

I was not usre that I needed a transformer. I was thinking 240 into box through breaker for 240, with seperate 15 amp for 110 as I would not really be running the well much when 110 circuit was being used. It is normally only cold enbough to need a heater. I was thinking of using it more as a utility circuit for compressor, or light, etc, and only as needed.

 

[hygron]

Thanks to all of you for chiming in and helping. I knew it was a good idea to pcik y'all's brain. i hope I answered all Q's to allow you to reply with informed advice. Peace

 

[hygron]

I was not usre that I needed a transformer. I was thinking 240 into box through breaker for 240, with seperate 15 amp for 110 as I would not really be running the well much when 110 circuit was being used. It is normally only cold enbough to need a heater. I was thinking of using it more as a utility circuit for compressor, or light, etc, and only as needed.

I have used transformers on my commeecial greenhouse, so I understand the concept.

 

[Bannerman]

Line was buried to run the well pump. I beleive it is 12

12 gauge conductors are suitable for up to a maximum of only 20 amps. As the design rule for circuit loading is 80% or less of the maximum rating, then 80% of 20 will be 16 amps. A pump load of 11-13 amps, does not leave much remaining capacity for another substantial load such as a heater or compressor.

With the extended run distance, the startup current required by the pump, may result in excessive voltage drop through 12 gauge conductors, which could result in pump start issues. Your total run distance includes the 100' horizontal + the ? vertical distance down to the submersible pump within the well. When there is an extended run length, the wire size will often be increased to reduce the amount of resistance which reduces the amount of voltage drop occuring within the run whenever the current draw is greatest such as while starting a pump motor or compressor.

There are 3 conductors. Bl, Wh, Green

For 240 volts only, conductor colors are normally Black (hot), Red (hot) and Green (ground). Because your White conductor is being utilized as a Red, each end of the White should be wrapped with some Red tape, to identify it as the Red conductor.

For a 120/240 volt feed, a Black (hot), Red (hot), White (Neutral) and Green (ground) would be utilized. A 120 volt device would then be supplied power from either the Black OR Red conductor, while also connected to the White conductor. A 240 volt device would be connected to both Black and Red.

thinking 240 into box through breaker for 240, with seperate 15 amp for 110

As there is no actual Neutral conductor running from the main panel, a 120 volt device will not function with only one connection.

 

[Valveman]

All good advice above, but nothing else matters until you get the pump unstuck. Running it will heat up the motor, making it expand. But the motor is 3.5", the pump cable guard is the 3.75" part and it probably what is stuck. With black poly pipe, if you pull to hard you will pull it off the barb fitting. The poly pipe will stretch before it breaks. Don't think you can pull hard enough with a ratchet strap or leverage. I would use the chlorine as suggested, and maybe add a few bags of ice to shrink it down. Then using blocks hook up a good jack, hydraulic if possible, and carefully tighten a little at a time. If she winks, she will go all the way. Lol!

 

[hygron]

All good advice above, but nothing else matters until you get the pump unstuck. Running it will heat up the motor, making it expand. But the motor is 3.5", the pump cable guard is the 3.75" part and it probably what is stuck. With black poly pipe, if you pull to hard you will pull it off the barb fitting. The poly pipe will stretch before it breaks. Don't think you can pull hard enough with a ratchet strap or leverage. I would use the chlorine as suggested, and maybe add a few bags of ice to shrink it down. Then using blocks hook up a good jack, hydraulic if possible, and carefully tighten a little at a time. If she winks, she will go all the way. Lol!

I totally agree and we have done that. Even if the pump might heat up; It has somewhat of a violent start, so we think it could break off some sediment. agree with al you say, and I asked you guys, because I knew I would get advice on what I know and have done as well as new ideas. I am goingn with hard wire pump to see if it breaks loose. Tensoin wise, I have tried all you mentioned. Peace and love. H

 

[hygron]

12 gauge conductors are suitable for up to a maximum of only 20 amps. As the design rule for circuit loading is 80% or less of the maximum rating, then 80% of 20 will be 16 amps. A pump load of 11-13 amps, does not leave much remaining capacity for another substantial load such as a heater or compressor.

With the extended run distance, the startup current required by the pump, may result in excessive voltage drop through 12 gauge conductors, which could result in pump start issues. Your total run distance includes the 100' horizontal + the ? vertical distance down to the submersible pump within the well. When there is an extended run length, the wire size will often be increased to reduce the amount of resistance which reduces the amount of voltage drop occuring within the run whenever the current draw is greatest such as while starting a pump motor or compressor.


For 240 volts only, conductor colors are normally Black (hot), Red (hot) and Green (ground). Because your White conductor is being utilized as a Red, each end of the White should be wrapped with some Red tape, to identify it as the Red conductor.

For a 120/240 volt feed, a Black (hot), Red (hot), White (Neutral) and Green (ground) would be utilized. A 120 volt device would then be supplied power from either the Black OR Red conductor, while also connected to the White conductor. A 240 volt device would be connected to both Black and Red.


As there is no actual Neutral conductor running from the main panel, a 120 volt device will not function with only one connection.

I want to make a more complete reply, but simply, I am not planning to run weel pump 24/7, so amps do nto equate. I need a utility 110 circuit for...whatever, when needed. I do understand the basic limits. I do not plan to run a compressor or heater, or anything else to rob the well pump. I only want to wire up a 110 plugin for when it is needed as a utilty option.

 

[hygron]

Much love to all of you who communicate ideas and options to feed my mind.

 

[Reach4]

Casing is PVC or steel?

1" black pvc flexible water pipe.

Flexible water pipe would be polyethylene.

 

[hygron]

Casing is PVC or steel?

Flexible water pipe would be polyethylene.

Yup! I forgot. I bought the roll to supply my greenhouse. Since I went blind I have not worked which is over 10 years and I am bad about keeping up with old knowledge. I have used this pipe (comes in a roll) for 12-13 years with no issues. I have even seen some folks use it for their well manifold. I just built a cool 5 zone manifold out of 1" and 3/4" pvc. Should last me the rest of my lie. LOL

 

[hygron]

I totally agree and we have done that. Even if the pump might heat up; It has somewhat of a violent start, so we think it could break off some sediment. agree with al you say, and I asked you guys, because I knew I would get advice on what I know and have done as well as new ideas. I am goingn with hard wire pump to see if it breaks loose. Tensoin wise, I have tried all you mentioned. Peace and love. H

I meant to also say; Pump is underwater. I would not run it dry, and thanks for the advice. I know some folks would not know this info.