Recommendations to boost municipal flow

[BobbyH]

Hello all, I am looking for hardware recommendations to boost water flow for my home. Here are the vitals:

My home is a single story house on a finished basement. The water enters through the basement slab, climbs directly up to the ceiling and distributes in the space between the basement and main floor. The plumbing was redone 10 years ago with 3/4” copper. There is no pressure valve at the inlet. The house is 100’ away from the City meter and City main. The line from the meter to the house is 3/4” and recently replaced.

When I bought the house, my first indication of an issue was that when I flushed the toilet, the water from the sink literally stopped flowing till the toilet tank filled. If I was showering and someone turned on another faucet, the shower would stop.

Pressure at the spigots are 38psi and the flow rate was 1 (one) gpm. If I opened another spigot, the pressure and flow rate dropped to zero.

The City came out and verified there were no leaks on my side and that the volume was 2 (two) gpm on their side. They agreed to replace the service line from the meter to the main (about 6 feet) and also increase the service line from 3/4” to 1”. When they dug up the old line it was about 50% blocked. After they replaced the line, my pressure stayed at 38psi and the volume increased from 1 gpm to 2 gpm. This helped my practical situation in that the second faucet went from nothing to a trickle. At least I could wash my hands while the toilet was still filling.

The City employee told me that he measured the flow out of the main prior to connecting to the meter and said the main was supplying 5 (five) gpm. This is as good as it gets because I live in a very small city and many of us have this problem.

So......by reading a lot of threads here, I’ve learned about installing a large water tank to draw volume from but that won’t work for me because the line is buried so deep and enters into my basement foundation. Practically speaking, I couldn’t get a tank into my basement. I learned here that a water pressure booster pump doesn’t really help with flow and that risking negative pressure in the system could contaminate my water or cause other issues. I also realize the drop in pressure and volume from the main could be caused by the length of the run (100 feet) plus the rise of the run from under the basement up to the distribution between the basement ceiling and main area floor.

My questions are: Will a water booster pump increase the flow from the 2 gpm I’m getting now to the 5 gpm the City main is capable of supplying? If so, can you tell me which pump will do this. Will I need a pressure tank with a pump? If so, which size? (only 2 people live in this house) Is there hardware that will bypass, or kill, the pump if negative pressure occurs on the supply side? I realize that I may only get 5 gpm on the outlet side but I’ll take it.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions. I do not have any plumbing experience nor can I do any of the work. If I know in advance what hardware to buy, I can call a plumber from the nearest big city to come out and they will do the installation.

 

[LLigetfa]

I’ve learned about installing a large water tank to draw volume from but that won’t work for me because the line is buried so deep and enters into my basement foundation.

The elevation of the service line is not an issue since you say there is 38 PSI. Elevation loss is only .43 PSI per foot so even 80 feet higher would still free flow.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Your best bet would probably to get the line from the meter to the house replaced. Maybe 1.25 inch SIDR polyethylene.

You are thinking about an atmospheric pressure tank with a pump supplying pressure for the house. The pressure tank should take at least a minute to fill. So if your pump pumps 10 gpm, you would want at least a 40 gallon pressure tank. 44 is a standard size.

I wonder how it would be to put a big pressure tank on your city water inside? No pump... The tank could fill when you are not using water, and let you draw water for a while in a hurry.

A 119 gallon pressure tank would give you about 30 gallons fast before it runs out of water.

I am not a pro.

 

[LLigetfa]

The line from the meter to the house is 3/4” and recently replaced.

Hindsight being 20/20, knowing how low the pressure and GPM is at the meter, a larger line would have marginally improved the situation but if you want more GPM than is available at the meter, you will have suction on the city line.

 

[BobbyH]

Hindsight being 20/20, knowing how low the pressure and GPM is at the meter, a larger line would have marginally improved the situation but if you want more GPM than is available at the meter, you will have suction on the city line.

It’s 5 gpm at the meter and 2 gpm by time it hits the fixtures in my house. When you say that I’ll have suction on the city line.....is it ok to do that? The City doesn’t care what I do as long as I don’t damage their system; they empathize with our situation. I guess what I’m trying to understand in my head is.....will a pump installed in the line where the water enters the house in the basement be able to increase the volume at my house to the same 5 gpm that the City says is available at the meter without damaging anything or causing issues I may not be aware of. Thank you for replying, I appreciate it.

 

[BobbyH]

Your best bet would probably to get the line from the meter to the house replaced. Maybe 1.25 inch SIDR polyethylene.

You are thinking about an atmospheric pressure tank with a pump supplying pressure for the house. The pressure tank should take at least a minute to fill. So if your pump pumps 10 gpm, you would want at least a 40 gallon pressure tank. 44 is a standard size.

I wonder how it would be to put a big pressure tank on your city water inside? No pump... The tank could fill when you are not using water, and let you draw water for a while in a hurry.

A 119 gallon pressure tank would give you about 30 gallons fast before it runs out of water.

I am not a pro.

I would replace that line if it wasn’t 10 feet deep, running under a driveway, and going under the basement foundation. The previous owner changed the line when he did a major remodel on the property.

It had not occurred to me to simply have a pressure tank installed without a pump. That may be an option for baths and when trying to run the washing machine or dishwasher at the same time. Thank you for replying, I appreciate it

 

[Valveman]

A booster pump cannot pump water that it cannot get. If you are down to zero at the meter already, a pump doesn't have any thing to work with. I thing the cistern storage tank in the basement is you best bet. You can get small storage tanks through the door and chain a couple 2 or 3 together if needed. But even 200-300 gallons would probably be enough for the booster pump to work with.

 

[LLigetfa]

That pic Cary posted is for a private well but you can just ignore the left side and run the city supply into the tank which you would control with a float valve just like what a toilet uses.

 

[BobbyH]

A booster pump cannot pump water that it cannot get. If you are down to zero at the meter already, a pump doesn't have any thing to work with.

The City tells me I’m getting 5 gpm at the meter and I’m getting 2 gpm at the house 100’ away and up one story. I’m trying to figure out if a booster pump can pull from that 5 gpm at the meter to increase that 2 gpm at the house I’m presently at. If that isn’t possible, I’ll do as you suggest and daisy chain a few tanks. I guess I was hoping that a single pump could pull that 3 gpm I seem to lose between the meter and my house. Thank you for your reply. I’ve read a lot of your posts and learned a lot.

 

[BobbyH]

That pic Cary posted is for a private well but you can just ignore the left side and run the city supply into the tank which you would control with a float valve just like what a toilet uses.

Thank you for the info. I’ll look into tanks to haul into the basement if it comes down to that. Thanks again.

 

[BobbyH]

Ok....I’ve looked at large tanks with float valves from this company https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-4335-low-flow-water-package-w-200-gal-tank-and-fittings.aspx

I’ve looked at the parts from this site https://cyclestopvalves.com/

Anything special I need to know about pumps?

I’ll call the plumber from the nearest big city and ask him if he can do it.

Thank you for all your help. I do appreciate it.

 

[Boycedrilling]

For a better idea of tanks available, check out Plasti-mart.com. Look st the doorway water tanks. You might find that you can purchase the tank you want from a farm supply store.

 

[Reach4]

I’m trying to figure out if a booster pump can pull from that 5 gpm at the meter to increase that 2 gpm at the house I’m presently at.

You can get a boost in flow, but you may not be able to get the boost you want.

 

[BobbyH]

Thank you @Boycedrilling for the recommendation.

Thank you @Reach4 ....that’s what I needed to know.

I’ll take all this to the plumber and have them work on it. I live in a very small town with very few trades. If I lived outside city limits, I could drill a well and be done with it. I do like our city and they do deliver clean water and working sewer. They also try to hold down costs so we try to compensate. I’ll work on what I’ve learned here. Thank you all.

 

[Reach4]

Ask them if they would consider boosting the pressure to your neighborhood. Who should you lobby? A town can put in a booster cheaper per capita.

Petition maybe?

 

[BobbyH]

Ask them if they would consider boosting the pressure to your neighborhood. Who should you lobby? A town can put in a booster cheaper per capita.

Petition maybe?

Ours is a small town with a lot of elderly folks on fixed income. We are still paying off bonds for the last upgrades and we need more upgrades so our water and sewer bill will go up again. Ours is a “pay as you go” town so we could petition the city to do upgrades but worry about the old folks who have been in their homes for generations not being able to pay for it.

If I can install a pump and/or tank in my own home without damaging their system, then I’ll look into it. The alternative is to do as everyone else and live with it. Our City government is a good one who does look out for our financial well being.

 

[Valveman]

Anything special I need to know about pumps?

You need a jet pump that has a max pressure of about 70 PSI, so you can use a 40/60 pressure switch setting.

 

[BobbyH]

You need a jet pump that has a max pressure of about 70 PSI, so you can use a 40/60 pressure switch setting.

Thank you....I will do that. I appreciate all the info. I’ll update this thread with results after getting the work done.

 

[BobbyH]

You can get small storage tanks through the door and chain a couple 2 or 3 together if needed. But even 200-300 gallons would probably be enough for the booster pump to work with.

I promised to update this thread.

I found a plumber who came over and tested flow and pressure. He said exactly the same thing that @valveman said. He is getting me a quote for enough tanks that will fit through the door into my basement and a pump. He is shooting for 300 gallons. I’ll post a picture with results when it’s done. Since I live in a remote area, it took awhile to find someone. I just wanted to update this thread to let you know I took all your advice to heart and am working on it.

 

[BobbyH]

I want to thank you all for your advice. I found a plumber that understood what you explained and fixed my problem. He used sealed tanks instead of open one like @valveman indicated only because of size restrictions getting them into my basement plus the added safety of preventing an accidental water overflow into the finished basement. Bottom line.....it works.