Received water test results. Need advice

[DuckyFred]

Just built a home in Upstate NY. New well at 144 feet. Very hard water with iron. No sulfer smells.
Pumping rate of pump: 13.25 gpm (draw down/cycle time*60)
House: 1 bathroom (hope to install a second bath in a few years)
People: 2

I have received the lab report from my water testing.
I need advice on water softener/filter system.

Below I only included anything with an actual result.
All others tested at <0.05 or below depending on the test.

Boron, total 0.51 mg/L

Calcium, total 664 mg/L

Iron, total 0.92 mg/L

Lithium, total 0.09 mg/L

Magnesium, total 59.1 mg/L

Manganese, total 0.147 mg/L

Nickel, total 0.02 mg/L

Potassium, total 7.6 mg/L

Sodium, total 130 mg/L

Strontium, total 13.6 mg/L

Sulfur, total, by ICP 519 mg/L


Alkalinity (as CaCO3) 182 mg/L

Bicarbonate (as CaCO3) 182 mg/L

Bromide 1.4 mg/L

Carbonate (as CaCO3) 0.23 mg/L

Chloride 316 mg/L

Color 5 color units

Conductivity 3380 micromhos/cm

Corrosivity, Langelier Index 0.6 S.U.

Corrosivity, Ryznar Index 5.9 S.U.

Fluoride 0.59 mg/L

Hardness 1900 mg/L (as CaCO3)

Hardness (gpg) 111 grains/gallon

PH 7.1

Salinity 1.71 ppt

Silica 8.3 mg/L

Sodium ads. ratio, adjusted 2.02

Sodium adsorption ratio 1.30

Sulfate 1470 mg/L

Turbidity 14.7 NTU

Tot. diss. solids, estimated 3040 mg/L

 

[Reach4]

http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/sizing.php says 6 cubic ft of resin.

That is big. I would be thinking of a Fleck 9100 dual with two 14 x 65 inch tanks. Maybe 2.5 or 3 cubic ft each. With 111 grains, I would be wondering if that is ppm or mg/l, but it looks like you pasted it. Still, check the report to make sure.

The effective hardness might actually be higher due to the very high hardness and iron and manganese.

Any H2S smell also?

Don't go ordering stuff now. I am not a pro.

The strontium may also be a concern. A kitchen reverse osmosis system designed to work with your salty softened water would take that out for drinking, plus many other things. You might want to remineralize after that to put back some magnesium and calcium. I don't see Katalox Light saying it affects strontium. My iron+sulfur filter did not affect the strontium number -- I had 1.3 before and after.

http://www.awwa.org/Portals/0/files/legreg/documents/2014AWWAStrontiumBriefingPaper.pdf

https://www.coxcolvin.com/epa-makes-preliminary-determination-regulate-strontium-drinking-water/ talks about strontium. Do some searching.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[DuckyFred]

Yes I copied and pasted from the report.
111 grains/gallon is correct.

No H2S smell.

I have been looking at the Fleck 9100 dual systems.
Would a 96k system be big enough?
Or should I be looking at a 110k system?

Also, should I be looking at a separate iron filter?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Reach4]

If you let the softener take care of the iron and manganese, there will be a little more maintenance. If you had H2S, that would make the choice easier, because your Iron+manganese filter could also remove some other things including H2S.

Compromise is to leave space for the iron filter but don't install initially.

I think nominal 96 K for each tank would be enough. When handling iron, more frequent regens are beneficial. Note that is 96K * 2, or 192. Of course you set it up for more salt-efficient setting.

Get your Hach 5-B on order so that you can test the softened water and tweak the compensated Hardness as you test to make sure you keep less than one grain of hardness.

 

[DuckyFred]

Thanks for the reply.

Any recommendations on an iron filter?
Type and size?

 

[Reach4]

A backwashing filter using Katalox Light media is usually best. The flow rate will be important in determining how much media you need. This calculator may overestimate the needed amount: http://www.watchwater.com/systems/kl_system.php You will find the results are highly dependent on flow rate and less on iron concentration than you would expect.

The softener would pick up what the iron + etc filter missed. The KL-based filter. would go at the front end after your pressure tank and usually before a sediment filter.

There is an advantage in many case to have a solution injected during regeneration.

So anyway, start with a size.

 

[Bannerman]

Your iron quantity is much lower than the 2.5 mg/L indicated by the building supply who had tested your water previously. The lab test also confirmed your testing technique is correct with your Hach 5b kit.

As there are only 2 people with 1 bathroom, your flow requirements will not be high. A 1.5 cuft Katalox Light system will typically support up to 5 gpm continuous flow which is probably sufficient for your needs. The equipment would permit the flow rate to be exceeded but there maybe a slight amount of iron present while the flow rate is being exceeded, which is OK on occasion. A 2 cuft K-L system would support up to 7 gpm.

Often the limiting factor for iron filter size is the flow needed to backwash the filter. As you state your pump & well will support 13.25 gpm, I expect you would not have an issue backwashing a 2 cuft K-L system.

Your hardness quantity is extremely high. A twin tank softener would allow the full regenerated capacity to be utilized before the unit switches to the other tank which immediately takes over softening duties. Unlike a single tank softener, regeneration does not need to wait until during times of no water draw so no amount of Reserve capacity would need to be programmed, thereby permitting full capacity use and higher efficiency.

When you mention a 96K system, I expect you are referring to twin 3 cuft tanks as each 1 cuft of resin has 32K grains capacity. A twin system with 96K total capacity would be small for your 111 grains hardness - 13,320 grains daily consumption requirements (2 ppl X 60 Gals X 111 gpg).

Softeners operate more efficiently when regenerated before the total capacity has been consumed, using a smaller amount of salt

For instance, 3 cuft of resin (96K) would require 54 lbs of salt to regenerate the entire amount of capacity, equaling 1,777 grains per pound salt efficiency. This capacity setting is not realistic due to resin losses and high hardness leak through when approaching 0 remaining capacity.
The same 3 cuft when programmed to regenerate when 90K capacity has been consumed, would require 45 lbs/salt = 2,000 grains/lb.
81K capacity would require 30 lbs = 2,700 grains/lb
72K capacity would require 24 lbs = 3,000 grains/lb
60K capacity would require 18 lbs = 3,333 grains/lb

As you can see, great salt efficiency can be realized when using either an 18 lb or 24 lb salt setting for each 3 cuft tank.

Your anticipated regeneration frequency would then be:
With 60K capacity: 60,000 / 13,320 (daily consumption) = 4.5 days
With 72K capacity: 72,000 / 13,320 = 5.4 days

With iron removed prior to the softener, it is usually desirable to regenerate not more often than 1X per week but your hardness quantity is so high, that would require larger tanks than maybe practical. Of course, a larger capacity system would reduce the regeneration frequency.

 

[Reach4]

With iron removed prior to the softener, it is usually desirable to regenerate not more often than 1X per week

I think that one week guide is because with a single tank system, you leave on average 1/2 day of capacity unused. With a twin system, that consideration is not a problem, and if you have 2.9 days of capacity in each tank, you would regen every 2.9 days. In this hypothetical situation, with a single tank of the same size as each twin, you would regenerate every 2 days -- using 45% more salt per month.

 

[Bannerman]

While not necessarily in every instance, the quantity of water utilized to regenerate a larger capacity softener vs a smaller one will typically not differ greatly. A longer duration between regeneration cycles will generally reduce the water utilized for regeneration over time and therefore, the amount of discharge which is emitted and must be disposed of.

Also, I stated 'usually desirable', not mandatory or essential.

 

[DuckyFred]

The iron levels are lower than I expected.
I have a home iron test kit too
The last time I tested the iron it was around 2 mg/L.

And I am looking at a 96k per tank twin unit. (192k total)
Unless I should be looking at the 110k per tank twin unit.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[ditttohead]

A twin alternating softener can regenerate as often as every 4-6 hours without a problem, other than excessive wear and tear on the system. Sizing a system for residential applications when using a twin alternating at your hardness is fairly simple. A standard 64,000 grain or slightly larger would be just fine, no need to go any bigger. A Katalox Light system ahead of the unit would be ideal especially considering the problems you have with the water already, no need to compound it by trying to do an all in one design.

 

[Bannerman]

A standard 64,000 grain or slightly larger would be just fine, no need to go any bigger

So, what would you propose for the salt setting/usable capacity?

 

[ditttohead]

huh? Not quite understanding.

A traditional single tank system should be designed to regenerate every 5-30 days. The longer the time between regenerations, the more efficient the system will be. Anything past 7 days starts to hit a point of diminishing return on efficiency.

A twin alternating unit can regenerate as often as needed since there is no reserve capacity loss. Commercially, we try to size them for no less than daily regeneration but sometimes space, hardness, water usage , budget etc may require that the system regenerate multiple times per day. While not ideal, the only real limiting factor on frequency is the time it takes for the salt to be adequately dissolved in the brine tanks water. In my 25 years of commercial/industrial work, I have seen many systems that regenerate 6 or more times per day. In all reality, this is no less efficient than a twin alternating system regenerating once per week,

Hope this helps.

 

[DuckyFred]

Bannerman,
Do you think a 64k twin (128k total) unit would be big enough or efficient enough?

 

[Bannerman]

As Dittohead said that a 64K (or larger) would be appropriate, then I defer to his knowledge, experience and advice.

To rephrase my question in #12: As I anticipate the entire 64K would not be exhausted prior to switching tanks, what capacity would Dittohead recommend is to be programmed to trigger the tank switch-over? It is my understanding that a twin system is programmed with a set regeneration capacity per tank as related to the salt dose, similar to a single tank system.

 

[ditttohead]

A twin alternating is set without a reserve. If a tank Is rated for 950 gallons, it will regenerate at 950 gallons. A single tank will regenerate when the reserve is met at 2:00 a.m. A twin alternating unit will simply regenerate at any time of the day. The only drawback is that during the backwash and Rapid Rinse cycles, the water flow available to the house may be very slightly decreased. It is unlikely most people would ever notice since the backwash and rapid rinse times are both fairly short.

Hope this helps!

 

[Bannerman]

I wasn't asking about reserve as I am aware a twin tank does not need a reserve.

As 12 lbs salt will restore 40K capacity in a 2 cuft single tank or 16 lbs will restore 48K capacity, would either of these two settings relate to the capacity you would recommend is to be programmed per tank in a twin system?