Rear outlet flange. What seals wall-outlet flange - BEHIND the flange?

['Pants]

I'm renovating the bath in an early-70s condo that's got mostly floor-mount/wall-outlet toilets. With the formerly-rotten wall open and the steel flange a lot cleaner than I found it, I can see that the plane of the flange is noticeably shifted from the plane of the wall. It's probably not so far out of parallel that the new neoprene gasket can't handle it. But there are three stainless bolt-heads counterbored into the face of the flange, and they're just begging for me to use them to adjust that flange back to parallel - if I dare.

I didn't touch it yet because I have NO idea what seals the inner lip of the flange to the rest of the bend. And no, I definitely don't want to break that seal by getting too anal-retentive about parallelism, even if that seal is composed entirely of aged excrement at this point. It's as crusty and nasty as you'd expect of a 44-year-old poo-portal, so if I broke the seal, I'd be getting a LOT more intimate with that crud than I'd like, while trying to fix it.

Can anyone say what sealed these between flange and the rest of the bend, to begin with? Were they built with O-rings, maybe? I wasn't able to Google up a representative example, but it's a 3" CI bend with the wall-flange adapted to it, and a 2" vent outlet topside (probably very common in highrise DWV...?)

Related question: is it in some jurisdictions prohibited to use wax gaskets on wall-outlet toilets, with or without felt? I'd never want to use one except in an extreme pinch, but have run into plumbers that do so without any concern.

Tx - Dave

 

[Reach4]

Here are some threads that mention rings for wall-mounted toilets:

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/wall-mount-toilet-replacing-felt-wax.22452/
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/neoprene-gasket-question-wall-mount.5074/
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/wall-hung-toilet-gasket.54223/
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/wall-mounted-toilets.10411/

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terry]

They do make reinforced wax rings for wall installations. It will say so on the box.
Normally I go with neoprene.

 

['Pants]

Hey I just stumbled back here randomly and found I'd had a reply or two, but...no notifications? I don't get it. All "my boxes" are checked for alerts, and the thread is set to be "watched," so... do notifications not come from "terrylove" something? Nothing in my gmail account at all under that, spam included.

Anyway, thanks for the ring-related reply, Terry.

What of the... O-ring?... or whatever it is that seals WITHIN this fitting, as it came from the supply-house, which must be something between the adjustable iron flange, and the hub into which the flange is seated? If I could find some cutaway views somewhere I'd probably "get it" and know whether any adjustment would be possible or advisable.

photo added by Terry of a neoprene ring.

Assuming this will link to my photo, it's a top view of the aging setup. You'll see the face of the flange isn't quite parallel to the wall. It's probably "close enough" but there are adjustment-bolts (not visible, but three of them in the face), and a couple hundred of these will be exposed in the building in short order while the DWV gets repaired, so it would be useful to know how they're put together.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Hvu6fcTWGjkdJAW73

Also, what's the generic name for this fitting? All my attempts to google it lead me to plastic or CI floor flanges, or wall-outlet gaskets, etc.

Dave

 

[Terry]

What you have will work. Normally a standard set of closet bolts to hold the toilet to the wall, and a wax seal like this or the neoprene seal.

I'm not sure what is sealing "behind" the flange. Sometimes if it's a thread on, there is an O-Ring seal.
Was yours leaking there?

 

['Pants]

Thanks, Terry.

Flange wasn't leaking - that I'm aware of - though everything ELSE leaks in the building, so who knows.

That old flange has a three-bolt adjustment setup - bolt heads visible under the residue of the wax that was last there. You'd "tighten" or "loosen" those bolts to adjust the face of the flange, in the manner of a three-legged stool. I stopped short of messing with it because I don't know what seals the back of that flange within the hub. Seemed pretty likely that whatever was there would crack/disturb because of the age and encrustation. Maybe that adjustment is intended to be done on installation, and then never touched again?

What's that flange/elbow/top-vent assembly CALLED?

This is probably all much ado about nothing, though. The replacement toilet I've been working with at a couple of units now (Caroma) doesn't have a direct-connection to the wall-flange like most do. Instead, the back of the toilet is "hollow", with a gap of around 16" between the porcelain horn and the wall. What spans that gap is a factory-provided offset PVC segment. The wall side attaches conventionally (left and right studs) with a supplied neoprene gasket. The toilet-side of the PVC segment is prefitted with a neoprene sleeve that fits, snugly, over the amply long porcelain horn, just by pushing it on. This seems a great idea for two reasons. One is that it lets me be entirely comfortable with my flange-to-PVC connection, since it remains visible while I'm tightening the flange bolts on the PVC segment. When I'm done tightening there, I can easily verify (measure) to check that the outer end of the PVC segment is about at the right elevation to mate up with the toilet's horn. But what's really cool about this is that the PVC segment, combined with the spongy neoprene gasket, allows considerable vertical flex, without getting to the point where I'd be worried there's going to be a leak. So...I can tile fully under the new toilet, and not worry about alignment issues.

Is this unique amongst wall-flush toilets? It definitely changes my outlook about them.