Question about costs to replace galvanized with CPVC for hot water

[Henry Ramsey]

I'm in Houston area. I am elected President and de facto property manager of a small 30 unit condominium community the buildings of which were originally built in about 1971.

We have the whole gambit of construction issues from that era including aluminum wire, FPE breakers, cast iron sewer pipes with lead+oakum toilet flanges, and galvanized steel water pipes. The hot water system is on a recirculating pump and two buildings share a single hot water heater for 15 units. All main 1-1/2" mains run through living room ceilings.

The latter is what I want some advice on or just a nickel worth of free advice.

We are planning to do staged replacement of water pipes in one building where we have had a bunch of sudden leak appear and then "travel" along the same main hot water pipe probably from vibrations of moving the pipe while working on it. We replaced about 80 feet of the hot water main following the first set of leaks. We fixed those and now the other end of the same building is doing much the same thing. Since we have ceilings open we want to be pro-active and just replace the whole remaining 120 feet of galvanized hot water line vs chasing leaks in this same pipe down the road.

The bid for this is $3750.50 for CPVC for a three day job. Three days is fine. Can someone who knows Houston pricing tell me if this is high or low vs average. (We are only have the main pipes fixed the local 1/2" plumbing is the individual unit owners responsibility to fix. Though we have considered floating the idea of getting a quote for that while we have ceilings open for the units.)

If you think it's higher can someone send me a phone # of someone to give another quote? I know that might be a red herring.

 

[JohnCT]

I'm not a pro, but unless this project is to get the building up to speed to sell it, I'd reconsider the CPVC. I've heard a lot of horror stories about CPVC becoming brittle over time, particularly with hot water. If the budget would allow, I'd replace the galvanized with either copper or PEX otherwise you might be revisiting this project sooner than you'd prefer.



https://www.plumbermag.com/how-to-a.../potential_plumbing_problems_lurking_in_walls

John

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terry]

I've done repairs on CPVC, but it's not pipe I've ever installed in a new home. I dread seeing it on service calls.

 

[Henry Ramsey]

These buildings will not be around long enough to have the pipe become brittle. Or such is my hope. We have tons and tons of growth and at some point not too far down the road the developers who are building $800k-1M homes right down the street will come a calling on us to sell. Our condos will be the only 1970s in the entire surrounding area if they don't.

So brittle CPVC pipes vs a bunch of little leaks from galvanized steel pin holes is not even on the radar. We just need the pipes not leaking now.
If they leak later well they just do.

We already replaced the first portion with CPVC so we already are on that horse. These pipes are not in an exposed area.
They are practically in middle of the unit downstairs ceiling so it's a (mostly) heated area. Sorry, if I was not clear about that.
Every plumber is offering CPVC so what can I do?

I do not think there is budget to go to copper or PEX. No matter how much I would love to.

My next door neighbor plumbed his own unit since he bought a wrecked unit he had walls open and spent he said >$1k on materials alone
for three baths and a kitchen of PEX in a DIY job. His was only the 1/2 local plumbing to his unit not the 1-1/2" galvanized mains which
are still unchanged.

Didn't I see an article somewhere about PEX pitfalls of bursting at their connections? Probably on YouTube I think.
Especially sharkbite PEX rings if not installed just right and with new connectors can fail. Or something like that.

 

[JohnCT]

These buildings will not be around long enough to have the pipe become brittle......We already replaced the first portion with CPVC so we already are on that horse.

Given that, you are doing exactly what I would do under those circumstances.

Didn't I see an article somewhere about PEX pitfalls of bursting at their connections?

There are many variations of PEX, but the types that are NOT sold by big box stores don't have problems. Personally, I like the expansion type of PEX A (Uponor). But *any* system, be it copper, CPVC, or any variation of PEX MUST be installed either by a professional or at least in a professional manner if one expects a problem free installation. Installation problems likely cause 99.9 % of any system failure.

John

 

[Henry Ramsey]

In a perfect world with 200k to spend only on a full re-pipe of the whole property including everyone's individual plumbing I would use all PEX.
I saw what my neighbor did in his with PEX and I love how he made local shut offs for his own plumbing of which none of the other units has.
If we want to fix leak past the stops we must cut off whole buildings to do so. We have intertwined piping even with the locals he put in if he cuts off his cold downstairs two of my faucets are also on that and get shut off too. I wish we could afford PEX everywhere, but the cost would not be supported at the moment.

I am still after whether that $3750 is a good price or seems too pricey given the short length of pipe (120ft) in question and time of work = 3 days.

I think I could talk the price down little if I maybe ask the unit owners who are going to have their ceiling open anyway if they want to
have their local plumbing fixed too. See if the plumbing company will bid for that give they have 5 units to work in we might get a sweeter
deal if even two or three say yes. But I'd like to know if that price seems high and by how much so I have a guide.

 

[Reach4]

I am still after whether that $3750 is a good price or seems too pricey given the short length of pipe (120ft) in question and time of work = 3 days.

I am not a plumber or other pro. The number seems pretty low to me.

Will the plumber have to cut into the drywall in the ceilings, or will that be laid open for him already?

Having an access panel and a ball valve for the hot going to each unit could be a reasonable adder. The plumber is connecting into the unit plumbing anyway.

 

[Henry Ramsey]

I'll take an educated or uneducated guess of that price. If you think it's low and I actually think it's good. The company we are using is where a journeyman plumber we have used for years has gone to work and he recommended his boss. He has guesstimated $6k per building. If we add the $1385 we paid for 80 feet in May. $600 for the next section we did in March and now $3750 for the rest are are not too far south of that number.
But we are in deed below that amount. And that $600 price was the guys from this company doing a side job off their regular company time.
Sadly given we must cut off water for time, we must do the work on a weekday when people are not home so that is out.

They will open the ceiling as needed. They expect about four holes per ceiling. The way our units are pipes were as if they were contiguous apartments not condos. This means adding a shut off that someone unknowing might actually use could become a problem. A few years ago on my building someone had a major leak in their unit. They told our HOA and the plumber that they would fix their ceiling instead of the HOA paying for it, if the plumber would merely add a cold water shut off for their plumbing so if they need to change a stop or what have you they could do so without need to cut off whole building.
A few years later they moved out but had not sold the unit and discovered a toilet leak. So they used the aforementioned shut off. The result was 160 degree hot water flowing in their neighbor's unit *toilets* and no cold water at all anywhere. The valve has a connection to both units. All of the units are like that. There is a Tee off the main to a 1/2 branch which splits to up stairs in the same unit with the T *and* then to the immediate next neighbor on the same plumbing wall. Obviously this complicates any local shut offs unless this piping is fully split up and makes the work more time consuming and hard. I had the plumber put full port balls on my showers with PEX when I remodeled a few years ago but that is only for upstairs.