PVC Flange not connected to metal ring?

[Elguapo16]

I checked through the forum and saw a few threads that deal with similar issues but I still have some questions.

I am replacing the toilet and when I got rid of the old one, I saw this.

A few questions:

1) The ring does not connect to the PVC flange at all. Is that acceptable? I am by no means an "experienced amateur" (ha!) plumber, but the few flanges I've seen are all one piece so it connects to the floor and then connects to the toilet. In my case, the toilet connected to the ring, which bolted to the floor.....and then the PVC drain pipe just sat there unsecured.

2) What is the best way to repair this? The options I've seen online vary from just buying a replacement steel ring to sawing out the PVC flange and replacing it all together.

A few things to consider:
-I see no evidence of leaking (knock on wood) from the old set-up.

-we are planning to do a full bathroom remodel in 2-3yrs that will involve moving the toilet to where the shower currently is, so while I want a secure solution, it does not have to be permanent and last for 20 years.


Any help would be greatly appreciated! I have learned a lot from this and other DIY online forums so I am always grateful for the time and effort you more knowledgable folks put into helping people like me!

Edit: I was looking at this as a replacement ring (IF that's what you guys recommend):

http://t.homedepot.com/p/Mossbay-Sp...l-Toilet-Flange-Repair-Kit-886-MRM/202528435/

Would that work?

 

[Reach4]

How far above the floor does the PVC part sit?

How secure does the PVC part feel when you push or tug?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Elguapo16]

How far above the floor does the PVC part sit?

The PVC (with connection) will sit mostly flush on the floor. The back end sticks up about a 1/4" or so. If I keep the setup as is, I planned to shim the back of it to prevent the toilet from wobbling. Does that sound right?

How secure does the PVC part feel when you push or tug?

The PVC definitely has some wiggle to it. I can pick it up out of the floor opening about 3/4". I can't see very well, but it seems to me the hole in the floor is cut pretty close around the PVC so that it doesn't wiggle left/right very much -- just up and down.

 

[Elguapo16]

Hate to be a pain, but anyone have any ideas on this? I've either got to come up with something soon, or break down and call someone in......wifey will only go so long without a toilet

Thanks in advance!

 

[Terry]

The main thing is to secure the bolts to the floor, which holds the bowl in place.
That could be done with the existing ring, a flat repair ring, or the segmented one you picture. It would be a tough repair to remove what you have to get it to drop that little bit. I would be inclined to at least try to get the plastic secured so that it stays in place before dropping a wax on it and bowl. The main thing, is pulling the bowl to the floor.

 

[Reach4]

If you said the PVC was stable, I would have suggested putting it back with no change. Can you readily secure the PVC from below? What you have is a PVC closet flange that was trimmed, and a repair ring was added to give the closet bolts something to attach to.

Some people are able to remove a glued PVC flange from above, but I think it is not something everybody can do.

As it is, I think I would use a SaniSeal with what you have. http://sanisealgasket.com/ It is resilient and could survive some movement better than wax. I might consider something to stablilize the PVC. Maybe I would fit something under the remaining PVC flange to limit the flexing of the PVC toward the floor.

I am not a pro, and I have not faced your situation.

 

[hj]

The flange WAS attached to the PVC when it was installed, but since they mounted it so far above the floor, securing it to the floor "snapped" it out of its mounting groove. Remove the entire flange, which may NOT be a DIY task, and install a new one ON the floor.

 

[Elguapo16]

Thank you all for the responses. I appreciate you all taking the time to write.

The flange WAS attached to the PVC when it was installed, but since they mounted it so far above the floor, securing it to the floor "snapped" it out of its mounting groove. Remove the entire flange, which may NOT be a DIY task, and install a new one ON the floor.

HJ - given that I only need this installation to last 2-3 years, is that still your recommendation? I'm trying to find a happy medium between a stopgap solution and cost. I mean, if that really is the way to do this, then so be it. Just trying to see if that's the long term solution...or the only solution.

The main thing is to secure the bolts to the floor, which holds the bowl in place.
That could be done with the existing ring, a flat repair ring, or the segmented one you picture. It would be a tough repair to remove what you have to get it to drop that little bit. I would be inclined to at least try to get the plastic secured so that it stays in place before dropping a wax on it and bowl. The main thing, is pulling the bowl to the floor.

Yeah, I'm thinking taking the PVC piece out is not a task for me.

I'm leaning towards cutting the metal ring out, securing the PVC as best I can, then putting a new metal ring around it. Then using the sani-seal like Reach4 recommended.....but I'm not 100% sold.

Thoughts on if that would last for the few years before we remodel?

 

[Reach4]

I would not replace the existing repair ring just because it has some rust.

If you want to replace the repair ring because it is not able to mount the closet bolts, you would unscrew the old rusty repair ring from the floor. Then you would screw down a new repair ring.

 

[Elguapo16]

The ring is not segmented. It's a solid piece. I think HJ's statement is right that the ring used to be attached to the PVC, but it's now detached. So if I wanted to replace it, I'd have to cut it out with a Dremel.

You're right though....cutting out the ring might be overkill. I do plan on trying the sani-seal though, so thanks for that suggestion too!

 

[Reach4]

The ring is not segmented. It's a solid piece. I think HJ's statement is right that the ring used to be attached to the PVC, but it's now detached. So if I wanted to replace it, I'd have to cut it out with a Dremel.

I was slow to pick up on that. Repair rings are usually solid too. I see that my thought that that was an old repair ring was wrong.

For cutting things out, you might consider a "ram bit" to help.

 

[Elguapo16]

Just a quick update for you guys. I ended up using the dremel to cut out the old ring and replaced it with the mossberg ring I linked to above. Then I went with the sani-seal instead of the wax ring as per Reach4's suggestion.

I was able to get the ring bolted securely to the floor, and I put some shims in to try and stabilize the flange. Im couldn't fix the fact that it was slightly unlevel (the back end sits up about 1/4" from the front end). However, the last toilet didn't rock at all, so I figured I could get the toilet to down tight to the flange anyway.

I installed the toilet and tightened it down......knock on wood, there is no rocking and no leaks. I know that's just the first step but I'm just holding out hope that it'll continue to hold for about 2-3 years.

I should have taken pics of the flange/ring, but I forgot before I installed the toilet.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for your advice and consideration. It is very much appreciated!

 

[WJcandee]

I can't tell for sure from that photo, but that looks like a 3" inside fit closet flange. That is, it goes "inside" the 3" pipe. When you redo stuff, if you're going to use a 3" rather than 4" line to the toilet (3" is fine, of course), then give yourself and your successors a little more flexibility in the future by using an outside fit flange. (Sioux Chief, for example, makes a nice flange with a steel ring that fits inside a 4" pipe and outside a 3" pipe, and so has a slightly-bigger opening and less "funneling".) Not a big deal in normal operation, because most toilets' output hole is less than 2-1/4", but it does give you more flexibility in mounting toilets and, well, more "room" for the toilet's output.