Pump Sizing suggestions

[crtbilly]

Hello Everyone,

Long time reader first time poster.

Current setup from the information I could piece together from well report and last pump supplier.

Well drilled YR: 1994
Well casing diam: 6"
Well depth: 300'
Water level from surface: 54'
Pump depth: 200'
Current pump: sta-rite 3/4 H.P. 230V 2 wire (they thought it was 10gpm) (no make or model)
Year Pump installed: 2012
Distance from pump to house: 125'

Using flotec 82 gal pressure tank with 40/60 switch in the basement. I also have a whole house acid neutralizer and water softener with 2 X BigBlue 20" water filters.

The house is a single story with 2 adults and 2 children . 4 full bathrooms. And it seems like we are always doing laundry.



I think I am in need of a pump replacement. The situation is the pump will come on but will only run for a short time before shutting off before pressure switch has a chance to. I have done some reading and from what everyone has said previously this is an early indicator of the pump failing completely.

I checked connections between the switch at the pressure tank and at the well head. I am getting good voltage to the pump.

The resistance before it stops is 4.1 but after it fails it fluctuates (can't get an accurate reading).

The amp draw is 5 amp off a single leg from the pressure switch. Haven't tested it right before it fails. Will try to recreate that.

So my main question is a 3/4 H.P. pump a good size for my house and well configuration or is it to big causing it to fill my pressure tank to quickly and cycle more frequently instead of the pump keeping up with large demands like showering and doing laundry at the same time.

Let me know if you need more info to help and thanks!
Bill

 

[Reach4]

I think I am in need of a pump replacement. The situation is the pump will come on but will only run for a short time before shutting off before pressure switch has a chance to.

Please clarify.

1. How long does the pump run at minimum.
2. When you watch it when the pump turns on, how high does the pressure gauge get?
3. What does the pressure gauge say 30 seconds later>
4. If you use no water (shut off the valve going to the house plumbing), how long is it before the pump starts again, and what is he pressure then?

What I am getting at is to distinguish a pump problem from a pressure tank problem or something else.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[crtbilly]

Please clarify.

1. How long does the pump run at minimum.
2. When you watch it when the pump turns on, how high does the pressure gauge get?
3. What does the pressure gauge say 30 seconds later>
4. If you use no water (shut off the valve going to the house plumbing), how long is it before the pump starts again, and what is he pressure then?

What I am getting at is to distinguish a pump problem from a pressure tank problem or something else.

Thanks for the reply and sorry for the missing info. Some time I have trouble with my written words and what's in my brain.

1) it only runs for a few seconds before cutting out.

2) when it turns on at 40 it builds pressure up to 50 before cutting out. If you wait long enough it will make it to 60 unless water is being used.

3) well I haven't timed it but I think usually the pump recovers after 1 min. So after 30 sec it's just sitting there.

4) well .. if no water is being used it will build pressure eventually to 60 until the pressure switch shuts off power. I haven't timed it but if I started from 40 it would take 10 min to fill with the intermittent pump.


when the pressure switch kicks on @ 40 it will fill to maybe 50 then the pump stops. Switch is closed and voltage is good to well head. If you wait long enough the pump will come back to life and sometimes complete to 60psi. If water is being used fast enough the intermittent pump will let the system go to 0 and water to house is nada.

 

[Boycedrilling]

Thermal overloads built into the motor are shutting the motor off. When the motor cools off, the overloads close and the motor runs again

Replace as soon as practical. Otherwise it WILL fail thanksgiving day! Your in-laws will not be impressed.

Quick look in my Berkeley catalog (same as a Sta-rite). A 3/4 hp, 10 gpm Pump will not build 60psi if the water drops all the way to 200 ft (pump intake). I’d the pumping level is only 100 ft, it will deliver 9.1 gpm at 60 psi. The 3/4 hp 7 gpm series will give you 5.4 gpm at 60 psi with the pumping level all the way to the pump at 200 ft. If the pumping level only drops to 100 ft, then this pump will deliver 7.9 gpm at 60 psi.

 

[crtbilly]

Thanks Reach4 and Boycedrilling, I really appreciate your suggestions and insight. I have been trying to do some research on makes and models of pumps and I'm more confused than ever.

Boycedrilling, Are you saying if the pump was moved to 100' instead of 200' or if the pump draws down to that depth?

I'd really not like to do this in another 5 years. From what I gather the cycling of the the pump is whats causing the failure. What are my options? What can be done to increase the life of the pump?

Get a bigger pressure tank to help bridge the gap between large usage times?
Get a CSV to reduce the number of cycles on/off?
Get a three wire setup? I already have three wire run to the well and a centripro control box without the relay and capacitor. Its acting like a junction box with the current two wire pump.
Buy a "better" pump?

I was thinking of building a pump using a franklin motor and a goulds GS head? Not sure if that would be a wise choice.

 

[LLigetfa]

Are you saying if the pump was moved to 100' instead of 200' or if the pump draws down to that depth?

Any distance below the water level is essentially free so it matters what the water level drops down to, not what level the pump is hung. If a pump deadheads at 100 feet there is no point setting it 200 feet down.

A CSV will match the GPM of draw up to what the pump can produce. It can also help with a low producing well to not draw it down faster than you can use the water.

A Cycle Sensor can monitor the current draw to detect a run-dry or deadhead condition if you have a low producing well and risk drawing the water level down to the pump intake.

 

[crtbilly]

Thanks LLigetfa, I appreciate you taking the time.

I guess I will call the well/pump company and confirm my current pump depth. I believe I did, but I have had so much info I may have confused myself.

When well was drilled they did a pump test.
Hours pumped: 3 hrs
pumping rate: 10 GPM
Method used "Bucket"

Water level:
Before : 53'
After : 265'

Pump Used: Air

I attached a picture of what the control box "really acting as junction because there is nothing inside" has written on it.


After doing some research based on some input from you guys I think I am looking at the Goulds 10gs07 High Head? Since I have a backup generator I was advised that a 3 wire might reduce the start load on it. I think this might be good since its not going to be the only thing running off it.

Here is the specs of the 10gs07. Let me know what you think.
View attachment 42962

Thanks again,
Bill

 

[crtbilly]

I put the wrong chart for the pump. This is the non high head.

 

[Reach4]

Looks like a good fit.

 

[Valveman]

If the water level pulls down to 265' like the pump test says, a 3/4 HP will not be able to build to 60 PSI. I would go with the 10GS10 and use a Cycle Stop Valve to make it work like a smaller pump when small amounts of water are being used.

 

[crtbilly]

If the water level pulls down to 265' like the pump test says, a 3/4 HP will not be able to build to 60 PSI. I would go with the 10GS10 and use a Cycle Stop Valve to make it work like a smaller pump when small amounts of water are being used.

Hey valveman, thanks for the reply.

Are you suggesting I lower my pump from 215' to 265' and up the size to 1 h.p.?

I think my postings have been confusing and I apologize for that. My pump currently is not set at that depth according to the info I have. The depth your referring to is from when the well was drilled and tested. So if I am understanding things that depth is irrelevant because my pump is at 215' but please let me know if I'm missing something.

I do like the idea of the csv. I'd really like to do whatever I can to increase my pumps longevity.

 

[Valveman]

215' is probably deep enough. That gives you about 240 gallons water stored in the well up to 53' level to use before you pump the well down. But a 3/4HP, 10 GPM pump will still not build to the 60 PSI shut off pressure from 215' deep. I would use a 1HP, 10 GPM pump so I could access water all the way down to 215' level.

 

[crtbilly]

But a 3/4HP, 10 GPM pump will still not build to the 60 PSI shut off pressure from 215' deep. I would use a 1HP, 10 GPM pump so I could access water all the way down to 215' level.

Hey valeman, always appreciate the input. Did you see the chart I attached. Did I miss something or based on the data in the chart you believe it not capable.

Thanks

 

[Valveman]

Hey valeman, always appreciate the input. Did you see the chart I attached. Did I miss something or based on the data in the chart you believe it not capable.

Thanks

Yeah sorry man. I was working on a bunch this morning and misread the chart (curve). That 3/4 will work fine from 215' and 60 PSI.

 

[crtbilly]

Sorry everyone for no conclusion update. Like most thinks I waited until it failed completely before tackling this. Like always it happened at the worst possible time. Had my parents in town, mom was showering at the time of course and no water. Lol....... anyways I had everything ordered and ready so was able to get up and running in 24.

Thanks again reach4 and valveman for your help. On to the next problem

 

[Reach4]

Sorry everyone for no conclusion update. Like most thinks I waited until it failed completely before tackling this. Like always it happened at the worst possible time. Had my parents in town, mom was showering at the time of course and no water. Lol....... anyways I had everything ordered and ready so was able to get up and running in 24.

The good news is that you had an adventure with your parents, and you had extra hands to do the project.

 

[crtbilly]

The good news is that you had an adventure with your parents, and you had extra hands to do the project.

Yeah, the old man was key in pulling and dropping the new pump.

Thanks again for your help.