Pump drawing current, but no water from well, ideas?

[mrdunk45]

Have a 1 1/2 year old Sta-rite pump, S5P4HS07231-01 (3/4 HP, 230V, 3 wire) that is set at 280 ft down in 300 ft deep well. Well is for a vacation cabin at 7900 ft elevation in mountains, so is not continuously used. Has been working fine since install by professional installer, last used in November. Late this February, turned it on and no water came out, i.e. well pumps into a 200 gallon "cistern" or storage tank. The Pump Saver Plus that controls the pump shows via its reader or "Informer" that pump is drawing 5.4 amps. I also removed the well cap and measured the current using a clamp meter on black wire to be 5.7A (2.7A on red wire, 6.0 A on yellow), 238Vac. With well cap removed and pump turned "on", couldn't hear any "noise" in well. Measured static water in well at about 40 feet, so plenty of water in well. Any ideas what could be the problem? If check valve on pump was stuck wouldn't the pump current be lower and wouldn't Pumpsaver shut it off and give error? (Pumpsaver shuts it off below 4.8A). How common for pipe above pump to be broken or severely cracked? If impellers were bad would pump still draw current?

Thanks for any comments,
Glenn

P.S. The other pump located in the 200 gallon storage tank that pressurizes the house continues to work fine and is controlled by a Cycle Sensor. (yes I like the Cycle Sensor better because it directly displays the pump current).

 

[Valveman]

Full load on a 3/4 motor is 7 amps. Yes I would expect the amps to drop below 4.8 if the well is being pumped dry, and you know that is not the case. Since it is drawing 6 amps, I would guess that the pipe has come lose from the pump or has a hole in it. I don't think the amps would drop much on that 5 GPM pump if the pipe is restricted, like with a bad check valve, so that is also possible.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

A 1/2 HP 7 gpm pump, would have been a better match to your well than a 3/4 HP 5 gpm pump.

I am not saying you should replace the pump, but when you eventually do, I would make that change.

 

[mrdunk45]

Thanks Valveman and Reach4 for your replies. Since there's still about a foot of snow here, it will be a month or so before a professional can come and pull the pump and find the problem.

I do have a couple comments on the pump replacement:
1. If it's a hole in pipe, should I replace pump while its out?..Don't think so.
2. If it's a bad check valve, since I believe it is imbedded in pump, I assume I should replace pump? If this is the case, I'd be disappointed in longevity and should I look to another manufacturer other than Sta-rite/Pentair?

There's a longer story to the well that could affect pump selection ....2 1/2 yrs ago well driller said at 300 ft deep he had 3-5 gpm, so I said no need to go any deeper. A year later when pump was first turned on (waiting for cabin construction), actual recharge rate was measured at more like only .25 -. 33 gpm! So I have a timer system that only pulls say 35 gallons at a time over two hours into storage tank, allowing well to recharge. There's never been a lack of water, but at that low rate I've always thought about having well drilled deeper to get a more "confident" amount of water should times of drought occur. Doing this when pump is pulled would seem logical but I'm also concerned about cost. Of course if well is drilled deeper, would need a different pump.

Thanks again for any comments.

 

[LLigetfa]

A year later when pump was first turned on (waiting for cabin construction), actual recharge rate was measured at more like only .25 -. 33 gpm!

Measuring the recovery rate is not trivial so I wonder how you drew that conclusion. Measuring the pumping rate is easy. If it was the pumping rate you were measuring, maybe the intake on the pump and/or impellers are getting clogged.

 

[Valveman]

Here is my best wild guess. A 5 GPM, 3/4HP can build 240 PSI. When you turned it on earlier the pipe could have been frozen. The 240 PSI could have just pushed the pipe off the barb fitting at the pump if you have poly pipe. If it is not roll or poly pipe then I don't know.

If it is a stuck check valve, just gut the one in the pump and add a new one right at the pump.

The problem is most likely 300' down, so we will all be guessing until it comes up where it can be seen. Sorry!

 

[Reach4]

I do have a couple comments on the pump replacement:
1. If it's a hole in pipe, should I replace pump while its out?..Don't think so.
2. If it's a bad check valve, since I believe it is imbedded in pump, I assume I should replace pump?

1. I don't think so either, unless there is some other sign of pump deterioration. I am not a pro. Is the well a 4 inch steel well? If the pump is hard to pull due to a lot of stuff narrowing the bore, maybe you would put in a "3 inch" 2.9 inch pump instead of that 3.75 inch trimline that you have.

2. I don't see how a check valve causes this problem, presuming there is not a hole in the side of the check valve. Valveman's comment was that a check valve blocking flow would be expected to reduce the amps from what you see.

I would say that your pump is controlled by a float valve, but the Pumpsaver provides the run-dry protection.

Is your pump hung on schedule 80 1 inch PVC pipe?

With well cap removed and pump turned "on", couldn't hear any "noise" in well.

I don't have experience listening to wells, but I would wonder if you left the well cap on, and listened with your ear on the cap on a windless day, you might hear something. Have another person control the pump on and off.


I have an idea to throw out. Suppose you blew air into the water supply line up top. If you have a leak in the pipe, the maximum air pressure that you could sustain would be limited by how far down the suspected hole in the pipe is, presuming the hole is above any check valve. For example, suppose you could put in 60 PSI, but no more. That would point to a hole at about 139 ft below the water surface. The maximum air would be 280-40=240 ft water column, which is 104.04 PSI. If you hit 110 psi, presuming your numbers are correct, then the leak would be below a check valve, or the problem is something else.

If you did this, you would need to take precautions to not over-stretch the pressure tank diaphragm. I think you could do this by raising the precharge air to as high as the max for that tank first. I think having the precharge higher than the air pressure you would use to test with would be best. That way the pressure tank would not serve as a large supply of air in the unlikely case of a pipe or something bursting.

Wait for the words of warning that may come out, before actually implementing this.

 

[Colton k]

Have a 1 1/2 year old Sta-rite pump, S5P4HS07231-01 (3/4 HP, 230V, 3 wire) that is set at 280 ft down in 300 ft deep well. Well is for a vacation cabin at 7900 ft elevation in mountains, so is not continuously used. Has been working fine since install by professional installer, last used in November. Late this February, turned it on and no water came out, i.e. well pumps into a 200 gallon "cistern" or storage tank. The Pump Saver Plus that controls the pump shows via its reader or "Informer" that pump is drawing 5.4 amps. I also removed the well cap and measured the current using a clamp meter on black wire to be 5.7A (2.7A on red wire, 6.0 A on yellow), 238Vac. With well cap removed and pump turned "on", couldn't hear any "noise" in well. Measured static water in well at about 40 feet, so plenty of water in well. Any ideas what could be the problem? If check valve on pump was stuck wouldn't the pump current be lower and wouldn't Pumpsaver shut it off and give error? (Pumpsaver shuts it off below 4.8A). How common for pipe above pump to be broken or severely cracked? If impellers were bad would pump still draw current?

Thanks for any comments,
Glenn

P.S. The other pump located in the 200 gallon storage tank that pressurizes the house continues to work fine and is controlled by a Cycle Sensor. (yes I like the Cycle Sensor better because it directly displays the pump current).

 

[Colton k]

I am curious as to know if this problem was resolved and what was the outcome. I too have a brand new well pump that is doing the same thing. The amps don’t decrease so the pump saver never kicks off but water comes out. After I dropped the pump in,it ran for 30 minutes with good water