Propane Piping

[winesalot]

Hi and thanks in advance for your help.

We are building a slab on grade building. Our heat source will be an electric boiler and in slab radiant tubing. We are also going to have a propane tank to supply the range in the kitchen. I would like to run the propane lines under the slab before we pour. What material should the propane lines be?

 

[hj]

Most areas will NOT allow any gas piping under a slab, period. Using an electric boiler for radiant heating could make you a millionaire, assuming you start as a multi-millionaire.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[WorthFlorida]

Contact your propane supplier if the stove will be on interior wall. They should be able to recommend a plumber to install the correct pipe during construction. If it’s on the exterior wall the supplier probably go right through the wall. Either way the propane line will probably need to be installed and working with an inspection for the CO.

 

[hj]

Here, the only way it could go to an interior wall would be overhead, and if it were in an island, it would have to come down inside a column.

 

[Rman]

Here, the only way it could go to an interior wall would be overhead, and if it were in an island, it would have to come down inside a column.

The way my town allows an under concrete gas/propane line is to be sleeved in pvc pipe. Where it exits the interior it must be sealed to the gas pipe ( I used silicone in a caulking gun and the outside where exits the ground open to vent with a bug screen glued around the outer to inner pipes. My whole house is on propane I used 2inch pvc with 1 1/4 black pipe was a pain to get every part gas tight

 

[Dana]

Most areas will NOT allow any gas piping under a slab, period. Using an electric boiler for radiant heating could make you a millionaire, assuming you start as a multi-millionaire.

In parts of the PNW it's cheaper to heat with an electric boiler than it is for me to heat with natural gas. The natural gas comparison may or may not be the case in Chelan, but the cost of heating with propane is often more expensive than heating with electricity in that region.

But even with 5 cent electricity or whatever I'd be inclined to do the heavy lifting of the space heating with a high efficiency ductless or ducted heat pump, even if keeping the slab warm-ish with an electric boiler operated off a floor thermostat. Chelan definitely has a cooling season, and the up-charge for heat pumps rather than split AC isn't too huge.

No matter how you're heating or cooling the place, run a formal Manual-J heat load calculation for sizing it correctly. With electric boilers that doesn't matter as much as with fossil-fired boilers, but sizing the AC correctly delivers the highest comfort & efficiency at the lowest up-front cost. With the typical negative latent loads in Chelan don't be afraid to go with very high SEER modulating mini-splits for cooling. You don't need much if any latent cooling, and even a 30+ SEER ductless won't leave you clammy or sticky, whereas a 13 SEER split system can even over-dry the indoor air in summer.

Reversible air source chillers for heating the slab are also possible, and can also provide decent cooling in that climate without much risk of condensation or mold on the flooring.

 

[winesalot]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. My pesky day job is a power plant operator at one of the dams on the Columbia River. I have been working nights this week so internet surfing isn't my #1 priority. But I'm back now.

Since we got sidetracked on heating and cooling I'll respond to those comments.

We do not have Natural Gas available in my area. I only want propane for cooking. Most commercial cook tops are gas (we will have a small bistro kitchen attached to our tasting room) and the wife want gas for the cook top in the residence portion of the building.

We pay 2.7 cents per KW/H in our area. I heard that we have the second lowest electric rates in the entire country. Not sure if that is true but power is stupid cheap here and always will be. Our PUD owns 3 hydroelectric dams and makes so much money selling power on the open market that they essentially only charge us to cover the cost of power distribution. Therefore, a 208V 3Phase electric boiler for the radiant system is by far the most cost effective system for what I am trying to accomplish. A big bonus to radiant is that blowing scorched air in a winery causes the barrels to dry out and wine to evaporate through the oak, Radiant will save me thousands of dollars in lost product.

Because we are a winery and have a chilled water/glycol system on site for maintaining cooling in our wine tanks it only made sense to buy a water chiller that was a bit bigger than the tanks need and use that equipment to provide comfort ac as well. Conveniently enough, the major wine tank chilling happens in the cool season so the two uses don't compete for btu's.

Now back to the propane. I am hearing that it is unlikely that I can plumb the propane underground. NBD, it would be easy to go in the walls or the overhead. I just thought it would be safer and more convenient to get those pipes out of the way.