Problem with toilet shut off valve

[Newbie AR]

Hi,
We have this type of shut off valve for the toilet and I could not figure out how to operate it since it has no visible handle. Tried pushing and pulling, but does not seem to work. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Anup

 

[Reach4]

I would think clockwise for off.

What is that patent number -- 8609177, 8609173?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gary Swart]

With that type of handle, I think it would turn. My suggestion is to replace it with a 1/4 turn valve. Toilet valves should always be fully turn on, never just part way, so all you really want is off or on anyway.

 

[Newbie AR]

I would think clockwise for off.

What is that patent number -- 8609177, 8609173?

Thanks for the response. Though it does turn clockwise, it turns back to the original position when let go. The patent number seems to be 4609177.

 

[Reach4]

It appears to be a quarter-turn valve where the action is not a ball but is a cylinder.

So anyway, it is not working. Replace it with a new valve as Gary suggests.

 

[Flapper]

Weird; how could a valve handle spring back to its original position when turned and released?

 

[Newbie AR]

With that type of handle, I think it would turn. My suggestion is to replace it with a 1/4 turn valve. Toilet valves should always be fully turn on, never just part way, so all you really want is off or on anyway.

Thanks for the response. T

 

[Newbie AR]

Thanks everyone for all the help. Will replace the valve as suggested.

 

[Flapper]

With that type of handle, I think it would turn. My suggestion is to replace it with a 1/4 turn valve. Toilet valves should always be fully turn on, never just part way, so all you really want is off or on anyway.

Why not?
I've seen people suggest to reduce the flow with the valve when the toilet is too noisy or causes water hammer or something like that.

 

[Smooky]

Weird; how could a valve handle spring back to its original position when turned and released?

Unless you special order the BrassCraft valve, all of the non sweat valves come with a plastic stem. Sometimes for one reason or another the valve will get stuck and not turn. The plastic stem will flex and give enough that I can turn the handles 1/4 to 1/2 a turn and then it will spring back when released.

 

[Smooky]

Why not?
I've seen people suggest to reduce the flow with the valve when the toilet is too noisy or causes water hammer or something like that.

I often notice people telling others to partly close the angle stop just as you mentioned. That may solve some problems but not all angle stops are built the same. There are BrassCraft multi-turn angle stops that have a true packing nut and packing. That type of valve could be partly closed and not cause a problem. The type of BrassCraft multi-turn angle stop that I see most often will leak if it is not fully open. This type of valve has two neoprene washers, one on the end of the stem to seal when the valve is closed and another on the back side of the packing nut. There is nothing holding the washer against the packing nut if you do not fully open the valve. If you partially open the valve it is subject to leak around the stem.

 

[Flapper]

I often notice people telling others to partly close the angle stop just as you mentioned. That may solve some problems but not all angle stops are built the same. There are BrassCraft multi-turn angle stops that have a true packing nut and packing. That type of valve could be partly closed and not cause a problem. The type of BrassCraft multi-turn angle stop that I see most often will leak if it is not fully open. This type of valve has two neoprene washers, one on the end of the stem to seal when the valve is closed and another on the back side of the packing nut. There is nothing holding the washer against the packing nut if you do not fully open the valve. If you partially open the valve it is subject to leak around the stem.

oh... what model of valve is that?

 

[Smooky]

oh... what model of valve is that?

This type of angle stop does not leak if it is partially open:
http://www.brasscraft.com/PDF/400.42_T3301_Multi-Turn_Angle_Stop_Stuff_Bx_FIP_x_Slip-Joint.pdf

 

[Flapper]

But what's the valve that may leak if not fully open?

 

[Smooky]

But what's the valve that may leak if not fully open?

When this type of valve is not fully open there is nothing holding the washer against the packing nut. It has to be fully open so the threaded part of the stem presses against a thin brass or plastic washer and that presses against the large neoprene washer and seals the annular space around the stem and the hole in the packing nut. If you partly close the stem that big washer is loose since on a multi-turn stem it moves in and out about 1/4 of an inch.

 

[AlGreen]

I'm trying to stop/lessen the water hammer caused by flushing my basement toilet, so I've partially closed the valve shown below. Is this the type that will leak?

 

[Gary Swart]

I base my answer on a supply valve being either fully open or clear off on several sources, on of whom is a guy by the name of Terry Love.

 

[AlGreen]

Thanks. I'll leave it fully open and replace the fill valve instead.

I base my answer on a supply valve being either fully open or clear off on several sources, on of whom is a guy by the name of Terry Love.

 

[Dj2]

AlGreen
While you're at it, replace the angle stop and supply line too.
The wall flange? yeah, that too.

 

[AlGreen]

AlGreen
While you're at it, replace the angle stop and supply line too.
The wall flange? yeah, that too.

Thanks, I will. We recently bought this home and there are a number of aged items like this that I need to replace.