Problem solving pump cycling

[42skidoo]

I find repairs straight forward it's the work to find what's causing the problem the hard part. I need a bit of confirmation here in my thinking process. I've got a pressure switch and therfore a pump cycling on and off every 30 secs. I turned off the valve coming from the well motor to the pressure tank. All lines from the pump to anything else is off so no water is flowing anywhere. The pump/pressure switch continues to cycle. I'm thinking the foot valve is leaking?

 

[Cacher_Chick]

What type of well/pump do you have?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Masterpumpman]

Do you have a pressure tank?

All pumps (above ground or submersible) must have a pressure tank to work properly. Pumps without tanks will cycle!

 

[Speedbump]

Porky's right and another thing. There should not be a valve between the pump and tank. After the tank is fine.

If the pump still cycles while that valve is open the tank is waterlogged.

If the pump cycles every 30 seconds, is this with this wrongly placed valve on or off? Once the pump comes on, how long does it run before shutting off again?

bob...

 

[42skidoo]

pump cycling

The pump is a submersable set down the well casing approx 100'. When I say valves I mean on/off valves not check valves. With all valves closed ie., with no water entering the pressure tank from the well, the pump still cycles. Cycle time is approx. 30 secs. Time is always consistant. I thought there was a foot valve located somewhere down the well casing just before the pump motor?

 

[42skidoo]

Question

Porky, just to confirm, the pump will cycle under 2 ways. 1) With all valves closed and no water allowed to go to the pressure tank. 2) I open all valves and the pressure tank is water logged. Is this correct?

 

[Gary Slusser]

There should never be a valve, or anything like a filter, between the submersible pump and the switch that controls it. So if you have one, don't shut it, and plan on preventing it to be shut accidentally.

If you shut a valve off after the presure tank/switch...

You have a leak between the pressure tank and the pump. Probably the internal check valve in the pump, or a hole in a fitting or leaking fitting. If not in the well, then from the well into the valve you say is preventing water into the pressure tank.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

If you don't have a leak, closing any valve installed before the tank would be effectively dead-heading the pump, which in time will damage it.

With no water running anywhere in the house, a properly operating pump will pump up to the cut-out pressure and stop. This pressure will be maintained indefinitely unless the water is leaking out somewhere. If you close the main shut-off in the house (which should always be installed downstream of the pressure tank) and the pressure still drops, the leak has to be between the shut-off valve and the pump. As Gary said, the leak might be in the well or between the well and the tank.

I asked what type of well as only knowing that could I answer the question about the foot valve. A submersible pump does not use a foot valve.

 

[42skidoo]

Pressure relief valve leaking

Got the new pressure tank installed. Did the pressure tank test and it was wter logged. Everything working now except the pressure relief valve. Seems to be leaking. I removed it thinking maybe dirt build up but appears to be clean. I have a new pressure tank so I'm assuming the tanks pressure does not jive with thr relief valve?

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Are you sure it is a pressure relief valve?

In my experience, the only pressure relief valve installed in a residential water system is the one on the water heater. There is no reason for an additional pressure relief valve.

 

[Sammyhydro11]

Submersible pump systems need a pressure relief valve because of the high pressures they are able to create. If your pressure relief valve is leaking, it could be defective, corroded, or your shut off pressure is too high.

sammy

www.tylerwellandpump.com

 

[42skidoo]

Pressure relief valve leaking

Thanks Sammy

I agree valve or pressure setting. I'll turn down the pressure setting on the pressure valve assembly and see what happens.

 

[42skidoo]

Terminology

Sorry about that last post, I should have said I'll adjust the pressure on the pressure switch not assembly.

 

[Sammyhydro11]

Your switch settings should be either 30/50 or 40/60 but not any higher.

sammy

www.tylerwellandpump.com

 

[Sammyhydro11]

Any higher than 60 psi will put too much stress on the diaphragm. A 30/50 cycle will give you more storage but less pressure.

sammy

www.tylerwellandpump.com

 

[Gary Slusser]

Right on, dittos, I caught it too and he's got it backwards, the lower the pressure, the more expansion of the bladder.

 

[Sammyhydro11]

Witch,
what i meant was less water pressure in the system. 70 psi is 70 psi. If you read 70 psi on a pressure gauge, you can bet that there is 70 lbs of pressure in that system.As far as the diaphragm, you are right, it can have more expansion at 50 psi with 28 psi of air. It can expand even more at 70 psi if your settings aren't correct. And that can cause a diaphragm to be damaged.

Oh yeah, i did graduate High School.

sammy

www.tylerwellandpump.com

 

[Sammyhydro11]

You know what, you guys are 100 percent right and i apologize if i mislead anyone. As long as the tank has the correct settings the diaphragm should simply flex between the 2 pressures in the system. And under lower pressures it can expand more. If the settings are off for much higher pressures in the sytem the diaghragm can rupture.

No need to comment about my education. My comments were a simple mistake on my part as far as actual pressure on the diaphragm.

sammy

www.tylerwellandpump.com

 

[Gary Slusser]

I was thinking more along the lines of a licensed and Certified well driller not knowing about the varying drawdown gallons caused by different pressure switch settings.

 

[Sammyhydro11]

I perfectly understand pressure switch settings and drawdown volumes. If there is too much stress on that diaphragm when the settings are off, it can cause the diaphragm to be damaged and that is one of the reasons why a pressure relief valve is on the tank tee.

sammy

www.tylerwellandpump.com