Problem flushing with Champion Pro 1.28gal toilet (lined tank)

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by flushed_out, Jan 23, 2016.

  1. flushed_out

    flushed_out New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Location:
    Canada
    Hi all,

    I've been having problems with my AS Champion Pro 1.28gal toiled that has a lined tank. Its been having intermittent flushing issues. Doesn't matter whether liquid or soilds flushing. Sometimes flushes well and sometimes can't swallow the entire flush. I've experimented with how long I hold the handle down and not a noticeable difference. Replaced flush assembly and chain is tight. Bucket test flushes quick so doesn't look to be a drain. I do have a horn wax gasket that I'll replace with a regular one just in case its bottlenecking.

    Here's my theory and wondering if you can help confirm. Believe the parts for the lined and unlined tank are the same on this toilet (at least from what I can find). Tank also appears to be the same size based on sticker saying fill level is same recommendation below the tube. Problem is, there's 1/2 inch of foam around the sides and bottom taking up water space! I can't figure out the volume, but thinking its significant enough to reduce the water flushed to make it borderline flushable?? As a test I put a rubber coupler on the fill tube to make the tank/bowl fill a bit higher and now notice a better flush.

    Could it be that the lined tank just doesn't have enough water to flush ok? I was wondering about a bad bowl or drain issue, but I'm suspect of that considering the bucket test and previous 6L toilet we had didn't have any issue. Does that sound like a reasonable theory?

    Anyone know how I can figure out the amt of water in lined tank vs an unlined tank?

    Thanks
     
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The tank holds way more than 2 gallons, lined or not. These were never designed to use the entire tank anyway. It could be that you have something in the trapway of the bowl that is slowing things down. I would run an auger down it and see what gives.
     
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  4. flushed_out

    flushed_out New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Location:
    Canada
    true the water difference flushed between lined and unlined would only be where the water sits at and above the elevated flapper on these. I will check the trap is it possible the bowl is faulty?
    Raising the water about 1/2 above the tube using the rubber coupler I put on as a test does seem to make it flush fine so that's why I'm suspect of the amt of water that's flushed in the line tank.

    Thanks again
     
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Your thought about the insulation makes sense to me. I am not a pro. I don't know if the tank and overflow tube are the same, other than the insulation, for the insulated tank. If you would like to know how much the insulation displaces, what are the dimensions between the slabs of of the insulation in the tank? How far does the water fall during a flush. With those three numbers, I should be able to compute your number.

    If you are happy with the effects of your overflow tube extender, I would go with that. You would have to adjust the fill higher, and you might have to get a new fill valve to do it.
     
  6. flushed_out

    flushed_out New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Location:
    Canada
    thanks

    luckily the built in fill valve goes up just enough to get it flushing well. Toilet is half cylinder shaped so I have these dimensions inside the insulation. 15 5/8in long. 3 3/4in high from flush valve to 1/4in below tube. 6.5in across. Insulation looks to be about 7/16 thick. I can't confirm if tanks are identical but from brief part number searches online they look to be same dimensions.
     
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    For calculation simplicity, assuming a semi circle with the dimensions you named, I would predict
    1.18 gallons with the insulation
    1.34 gallons without the insulation

    I compute that raising the water level in the insulation about 1/2 inch would make the flush with insulation about 1.34 gallons also.

    Lots of simplifying assumptions here, but I expect this is roughly close enough. The hard one is that this presumes the water level before the flush is 3.75 higher than the water level just after the flapper closes and the flow from the fill valve is negligible during that short period..
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2016
  8. flushed_out

    flushed_out New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Location:
    Canada
    Thanks for doing that. From what I roughly calculated it looks to be similar. That's over 1/2 of a litre which is significant especially dealing with such a low capacity tank to begin with. So far so good with the coupler- flushes every time. Anyone else experienced this at all with a 1.28gal insulated tank? Is it possible I have a bad bowl that isn't siphoning well or is this just the nature of my configuration here?
     
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    The flapper flush valves tend to close once the water reaches a certain level, so if a lined verses unlined tank did not change the flapper, it might not flush as well. Your experiment by raising the level seems to corroborate that. The solution may be to ty one of the adjustable flappers. I do not know if someone makes one for that toilet, but Korky does make one for some...it has a ring that you turn on it to adjust when it closes and may give you the proper flush without doing anything else on your toilet.
     
  10. Mark Kohlhaas

    Mark Kohlhaas New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Location:
    California
    I have a Toto toilet and suspect the same problem--insulation reducing volume of flush water. I figured mine is only flushing with one gallon.
    Without the insulation, it would be 1.6, which is what it is supposed to be. I called Toto and they were no help--insisted that one gallon was enough to flush and that it is a flapper problem. Holding the handle down for many seconds is the only way to get it to flush solids but it still clogs 2-3 times per week. I have another Toto (different model) and it has worked fine. The flappers are different so I switched them--made no difference. I'm tempted to tear out the insulation but I may just end up with a sweating and poorly flushing toilet.
     
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