Priming point for shallow well pump

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by belewmoon, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. belewmoon

    belewmoon New Member

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    Priming point for shallow well pump - pics on 2nd page.

    Do I need both priming points? I believe I need the priming point before the pump but not sure about the one after the pump. I would like to cut out all points that could leak or be extra/not needed.

    View attachment well_pump.txt

    SEE PICS ON 2nd PAGE...
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2007
  2. Pumpman

    Pumpman Pump Sales

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    I usually install a tee above the discharge of the pump for a priming point. I don't like to install any more than I have to on a suction line.
    Some pumps (like Sears) have a built in checkvalve, which makes it necessary to install a priming port on the suction line.
    Ron
     
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  4. belewmoon

    belewmoon New Member

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    I originally had a Flotec pump. I replaced it with a Sears pump. I rebuilt the Flotec & will install it in place of the Sears. All this time I have kept the piping original, not changing anything.

    suction line = before pump
    discharge = after pump

    With the Sears pump, I need both priming ports?
     
  5. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

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    I expect so since they have check inside.

    I don't like the tee before the tank, I like having the tank on a tee and the pump on one side of it and the house on the other, that way all the water flows the same one way direction.

    Your set up has the tank water flowing back to the tee to the house when the pump isn't running and then having to stop and go reverse to the tank when the pump comes on. Plus there is a pressure loss to do that and another due to the tee to the house where off the tank to the house keeps the line straight or into an elbow with better flow than a tee. And that happens every time the pump starts. That causes water hammer which is usually quite destructive and the damage adds up.
     
  6. speedbump

    speedbump Active Member

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    And to add to what Gary said, it sounds like you are buying plastic pumps. That can be a big source for leaks.

    Buy a quality pump and you won't have to worry about additional leaks.

    I'm not sure what you mean by priming points, but it sounds like your trying to eliminate leaks. There shouldn't be any leaks with a cast iron pump and some pipe dope applied or teflon tape.

    bob...
     
  7. belewmoon

    belewmoon New Member

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    bob, did you take a look at the diagram I included in post #1? I specify the "priming points". They are openings to the pipe with a plug. The plug can be taken out to have access to the water in the pipe.

    I'm trying to eliminate any points that may become problems. Doesn't make sense to have a priming point (AKA leakable plug, etc) if I don't need it.

    I didn't install the original system. I don't know if it was set up correctly or not.

    I had to replace the original pump due to sand got in it & destroyed the seal, etc.

    So bob, do I need priming points both before & after the pump?
     
  8. belewmoon

    belewmoon New Member

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    Very interesting Gary! I believe you are correct in how my system is working now. It sounds like the routing of my piping is very inefficient. Is there a diagram somewhere that would show me how it should be set up? Now is the time to do this while I install a new pump...
     
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

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    IF your pump has an internal check valve, yes you need both priming points.

    IF you want to replumb your tank, run the line from the pump to the tank and from the tank to the house. It's a straight line, with a few elbows probably, draw it out with the present tee gone and put one at/into the tank.

    Pipe thread plugs etc. won't leak IF you tighten them tight after applying tape or dope.

    BTW, the three of us replying to you have at least 20 years experience with pumps; although I don't know near as much as the other two.
     
  10. speedbump

    speedbump Active Member

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    I thought you did pretty good Gary, don't sell yourself short.

    Like Gary said, the plugs are no problem if tightened up. And there is really only one prime hole. It would be on top of the pump so you can fill it all the way up with water when initially installing it. There is hopefully no check valve at the pump. If there is, it would be better to put that valve in the well at the end of the droppipe.

    bob...
     
  11. belewmoon

    belewmoon New Member

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    Gary, thanks for the reply. I can't picture in my mind your replumb suggestion. That's why I would like a diagram or picture to look at.

    I would have 2 threaded plugs, 1 copper pipe & 1 PVC. But why have any if you don't need them. I don't care if they haven't leaked in the last 20 years. Why take a chance?

    You suggest needing both priming points with internal check valve. It sounds like bob suggests only 1 but I'm not sure if that was with my current setup or a replumb setup.

    Nowhere did I doubt The 3 Amigos advice. What I did wonder was why bob started right in with the "Plastic vs Metal" advice. It wasn't what I asked for but it's no big deal.
     
  12. belewmoon

    belewmoon New Member

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    bob, thanks for your info. There is no external check valve at the pump. I believe there is a check valve at the drop pipe in the well but it's been 4 years so I'm not sure.
     
  13. speedbump

    speedbump Active Member

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    Lots of times I try to warn people against bad quality equipment. It's just my nature. We see them all the time, won't work on them and won't sell them. We see just how bad the low quality stuff is and wonder why someone bought it in the first place. For just a little more money, you can get the quality and in the long run save a lot of money.

    I can't make any sense out of your sketch, that's why I'm not sure what your describing. A digital picture would be worth a thousand words.

    The order of things would be something like this: Footvalve > droppipe in well > pumps suction fitting > priming tee on top of pump > pipe leaving tee horizontally to > tank. If the tank is a bladder tank, the water will go straight past it to the house or fill/empty when needed. The other plugs on the pump should be for draining, adding a gauge, air control fitting, or who knows. But there is no other way of plugging them but with a plug or other threaded device. If you have priming tees in the suction line, you don't need them and should get rid of them.

    bob...
     
  14. belewmoon

    belewmoon New Member

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    Understand about the sketch. I used notepad so that people wouldn't worry about a virus or spyware being included. Didn't realize I could just include a photo. Will do that tonight & post.

    The tank is a bladder type. I do have a priming plug in the piping on the suction side of the pump. I'm not worried about the plugs on the pump, just the piping.

    Thanks & I will get some pics posted.
     
  15. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

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    I don't know why you can't understand how to plumb the tank based on my reply... The same with how Bob doesn't understand your drawing (the prime points are the 0s). So I've attached an edited version of it (with notes) as I would plumb it.

    I suggest leaving the prime points alone, they will not leak and WHEN you need to prime the pump/drop pipe (and you will someday), you'll be damned glad you did.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. belewmoon

    belewmoon New Member

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    Sorry Gary but I have an inability to picture things from plain text. However, I perfectly understand your masterful notepad drawing! And I appreciate the time & effort that you took to put that together.

    I can't say I like having that u-turn after it exits the tank but I do understand the concept. My tank sits on a table & doesn't have much clearance. Maybe after exiting the tank, it does a 180 degree to the right/left...I'll have to take a closer look...thanks for the diagram!
     
  17. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

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    I edited your drawing....

    You are missing the whole concept! The above and a few other comments tells me you're over your head trying to do plumbing if you can't visualize from my reply; and you're scared that those prime plugs will leak.

    So now I'm still not sure you grasp the concept when you say you can't visiualize and have to look if the plumbing does a 180 after the tank.
    It won't.

    AND the drawing doesn't suggest you plumb a 180; plumb FROM THE PUMP to the TANK to the filter to the HOUSE as straight as possible. Meaning with a minimum number of elbows.
     
  18. belewmoon

    belewmoon New Member

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    Actually not scared of the prime plugs leaking. I want to make sure my plumbing is done correctly hence my questioning of 1 or 2 priming points or whether I need any at all.

    I did take a look at your edited drawing. Thought I understood it. The drawing DOES suggest a 180 after exiting the tank. I now understand what you are saying when you say "straight as possible". Your drawing DOES NOT suggest straight as possible. I do understand when you say "minimum number of elbows".

    Unfortunately, my pump/tank are in a corner of my basement next to my UV filter. For now, I don't think I have the room to run "straight as possible". The pics will show...
     
  19. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

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    I don't see any pics....

    LOL Your drawing is a schematic, and schematics are not meant to be anywhere near reality.

    I can't tell you how many hundred UV lights and then pressure tanks and jet pumps I've installed/replaced but..

    Viewing this from your point of view... the pump is full of water now so remove both prime points and plumb the tank with plumbing as straight/short/with the fewest fittings as possible. Or plumb the filter/house off the main line so as to maximize the balance of flow.

    Which brings up another thing, the filter. Is that a disposable cartridge, automatic or manual backwashed or regenerated or a spin down filter? Is it sufficient for your peak demand gpm? Is the gpm of the pump and then the plumbing from the pump, and the tank, correct? How about the psi? Do you have a spare pressure switch and guage? Plastic or metal switch nipple or is the switch on the pump? If on the pump is the pressure line plastic or metal? Have you cleaned any of them lately? Is the power line to the pump in conduit? Metal or plastic? Have you had a comprehensive water test in the last 6-12 months?
     
  20. belewmoon

    belewmoon New Member

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    You don't see any cause there 'aint none. What exactly was your point to that statement?

    Schematic, drawing, diagram, whatever! Be a little bit more open minded & little bit more closed mouth & I'm sure we can figure this out.

    I did not install the water, UV or filter systems. I'm just trying to maintain them as a first time homeowner.

    The condescending attitude of some people in this thread is getting rather tiring. I have enough to go on. However, I will include pics when I get around to it...and not one water leak drip before!
     
  21. Raucina

    Raucina New Member

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    You guys better be careful - Plumbing rage is becoming second to road rage as a source of death and dismemberment.

    Better take it out behind the mis-piped pump house and whack each other with schedule 80 pipe until the guy with the best schematic, or diagram or missing photo, [or whatever] remains standing.

    Multiple priming ports Rule!! We all HATE 180' bends!
     
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