Pressure Assisted toilets, are they good and safe? Looking for recommendations

[Leonid]

I am looking for a toilet to replace my 30 years old Kohler toilet that clogs every time.

I am looking for a toilet with a very strong flush, at least 800 MaP Flush Score, and, of course, a very reliable one. I am not looking for anything fancy and I am not very much concerned about noise or amount of water it uses.

I looked at the following models of Pressure Assisted toilets : Kohler K-3505, AS Cadet 2467.016.020, and Niagara 77001WHCO1 Stealth 0.8 GPF. But from what I read, Pressure Assisted toilets require strong water pressure, at least 25 pound per squire inch, and they are bad for the pipes, especially for the old pipes in an old house, which is my case.

Your Toilet Guide

I have no idea what kind of pressure I have, but it is not very strong.

I would like to know if those issues with Pressure Assisted toilets are real. If not, which one would you recommend? If yes, I would appreciate recommendations for a regular toilet, that never clogs.

Thank you

 

[Jadnashua]

On a public water system, 25psi would be rare...it's almost always at least 40psi and can be quite a bit higher. Do not equate pressure with volume. ON an old house, you could have some galvanized pipes, and as they age, they DO start to rust. They could have the inside diameter of a pencil because of the rust. This will restrict the flow, but your static (no water flowing) pressure could still be quite high. The more flow restrictions, the lower your effective pressure is at the end.

Personally, I much prefer a gravity flush toilet. Quieter, simpler, and water pressure is not an issue. You must consider that the MAP test uses plastic wrapped paste...it's not the same thing as the 'real' stuff, and companies have figured out how to make their toilets look good. The originator of the test says anything more than 500g is overkill. I have two Toto toilets in my home, and put two in my mother's house. They all work quite well. A really good workhorse model from them is the Toto Drake II. The original Drake works quite well too (and is what is in my mother's house). I have a Vespin and a Carlyle, mostly for the style, not the function.

Note, if there are problems with the drain pipes, a new toilet might not fix your problem. IF it is the actual toilet that clogs, then a new toilet should resolve your problem.

 

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[Terry]

25 PSI isn't very much. In fact pressure assist units have a pressure reducer built in to prevent high pressure.
Kohler makes a good pressure assist toilet with a nicely sized trapway.
http://terrylove.biz/home/47-kohler-highline-classic-ada-pressure-lite-toilet-k-3493.html
I sell a few of these in the Seattle area.

Kohler Highline with Flushmate

The Niagara Stealth is a gravity bowl.

Like mentioned above, there are plenty of toilets with a 500 or better rating that work great.
Most of the time you're not flushing plastic wrapped missiles anyway.

 

[Leonid]

Thank you for your prompt answers.

I have a couple of additional questions:

Are the pressure assisted toilets harmful for the old pipes as the article I referred to stated?

I apologize for my mistake, Niagara Stealth is not power assisted, it is vacuum assisted, but is it good? It looks very enticing and there are good ratings.

Thank you

 

[Jadnashua]

In reality, if you think about it, the typical outlet of a toilet is slightly over 2" in diameter. The drainage pipe is at least 3" and may be 4" in diameter. Just how far do you think that the high speed jet from a pressure assisted toilet will have the waste moving faster than just gravity will produce? Yes, it can move it initially faster, but a good gravity toilet also uses a jet to get the waste moving faster than the old toilets.

The issue some have with any modern new low-flow toilet is that the waste is deposited a shorter distance from the toilet than the old ones that may have dumped as much as 5x more water per flush. In a typical house, even with the old ones, the waste may not make it all the way out on the first flush. It often takes additional flushes or water from a shower or tub or a washing machine to wash it all the way out. This was true with the older ones, but it did go further with the larger quantity of water.

I have not heard of real problems from a pressure assisted toilet that differs from a quality gravity flush toilet.

While a pressure assisted system may last a long time, it is quite a bit more expensive to replace when it does need service than the typical flapper valve and maybe fill valve of a gravity flush toilet.

 

[Gary Swart]

Pressure assisted toilets are a joke. Toto, the leading toilet manufacturer in the entire world does not make one. They are noisy, shred paper into fine pieces that do not flush, and they are dangerous. Those tanks have been know to explode. As previous noted, there are many excellent gravity flush toilets available. You make too much issue about the MaP ratings. Any thing over 500 is just hype. It's like horsepower in an automobile. Gotta have some, but most of us don't drive a formula I.

 

[Winterson]

With all the low volume toilets in my area the city crews have to go around once each year to pump water through the waste line to clear out the sludge that accumulates. The pressure assist toilets may help and the ones I have installed result in 100% of the solid waste going out of the bowl. which is often not the case with the regular low volume toilets. They are very loud when flushing and so I put one in the guest bathroom to insure full flushing but not in my other bathrooms.

Solid waste removal from the bowl is seldom mentioned but it is a problem and what good is a low capacity toilet if it needs to be flushed twice? I am changing out a floor mount for a wall mount Geberit carrier toilet and it took a bit of research to find the best bowl in terms of getting a full flush and minimizing sediment buildup (Duravit with Wondergliss is what I chose).

I would download the specs for the toilets and determine exactly what is needed in terms of supply line pressure rather than guessing.

 

[Terry]

Solid waste removal from the bowl is seldom mentioned but it is a problem and what good is a low capacity toilet if it needs to be flushed twice?

I've sold a few thousand toilets, and if they weren't working well, I wouldn't have so much repeat business.
A good modern toilet now flushes very well with 1.28 gallons. Gravity or assist.

 

[Jadnashua]

If your toilet does not clear the bowl in one flush, you likely have a crappy toilet! Over the years, manufacturers have improved their designs, but for those that tried to make their old water guzzlers work with lower flush volumes...those produced lousy results. Toto had all of the figured out before they introduced their low-flow toilets to the USA. American Standard, Kohler, Gerber, etc. did not, and tried to make their older ones work without major engineering inputs...they failed. Eventually, they've learned, for the most part.

 

[Leonid]

Thank you all very much for your valuable input. After reading this and other threads on the site I decided to go with Caroma. So far I am happy; it does not clog.

 

[Terry]

The Caroma will do well for you. Yesterday in a Seattle retirement home I pulled out a Glacier Bay Dual-Flush and installed a Caroma Sydney Smart 305 elongated. The Sydney has a 3" trapway.

The Glacier Bay trapway just wasn't cutting it.