pressue switch dripping water

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moltman

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Well system rookie here...I have a pressure switch that has begun dripping water. I am assuming that this is an indication that the switch is now bad and obviously needs replacing (duh, right). What causes the switch to suddenly start leaking this way? The switch is a 40/60 but I'm running 50/70. Is the higher setting causing premature wear and tear on the switch? What is that doing to the pump and tank? Would there be a $$ benefit if it was reduced to 45/65 or to the switch setting of 40/60? I run the higher pressure partly because of some larger lawn irrigation sprinkler heads and their coverage areas, but at the same time I'm getting tired of the large electric bills too.

Advice and opinions are welcome!
Shoot first and let God sort 'em out! Airborne!
 

Cass

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There is a diaphragm in the switch that may have ruptured. When you replace it be sure the small 1/4" pipe it is screwed on to is clear.

If your well has a fast recharge rate you could add another bladder tank and this would reduce the # of start / stops and extend the life of the pump.

50/70 should not be a problem as long as the air pressure in the bladder tank is set for that pressure.

If you do a lot of watering you might want to consider a CSV.

Now that I have said that there will be a few people pop in here and talk further with you on this matter.
 

Speedbump

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I can't remember ever seeing a switch leaking. What brand switch is it? Where is it leaking from?

The pressure settings are not extreme and should hurt the switch anyway.

Does the pump cycle while the sprinklers are running?

bob...
 

moltman

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pressure switch leaking...

The water appears to be coming from the area that is just above the water tube that the pressure switch screws onto.

Cass: I have been thinking of going to a larger tank (presently have the Well-X-Trol WX-25) if for no other reason to have improved drawdown rates. I have a 1.5hp pump. In the 4yrs we've been in this house I have had to replace the electrical componets (other than the pressure switch) twice...1 because of lightning strike, the other because the tank had lost pressure and the pump was short cycling. Sounds like your pretty familiar with the systems...what would you recommend for upgrading...heres my demands on the system: family of six, irrigation system with 18 zones - watering time ranging 7-22 minutes per zone. I would like to try to improve my electric costs in the process as well which presently run $240-275/mos (includes a hot tub). BTW...what is a CSV and what does it do for me and the system?

Thanks for the feedback!...now I have to find a switch!
 

Bob NH

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moltman said:
I would like to try to improve my electric costs in the process as well which presently run $240-275/mos (includes a hot tub). BTW...what is a CSV and what does it do for me and the system?

A Cycle Stop Valve (CSV) is a regulator device that has an internal bypass.

A pump "cycles" when the demand (flow) of the system at the pressure switch shutoff pressure is less than the capacity of the pump at that pressure. For example, if you are running an irrigation zone that uses 10 GPM at a 60 psi shutoff pressure of your pump, but the pump has a capacity of 13 GPM at 60 psi, then the pressure will build up to cause the pump to shut off. The system will draw water from the tank until the pressure drops to the "start" pressure, at which point the pump will start and run until the pressure again reaches 60 psi.

The frequent cycling is undesirable because it causes variable pressure on the sprinkler heads and it requires the pump to make more starts.

There are at least 3 ways to eliminate the cycling and get constant pressure on the sprinklers. They all depend on a charasteristic of pumps that increasing the pressure decreases the flow that the pump can deliver.

1. Increase the shutoff pressure setting of the pressure switch so that the reduced flow capacity at the new shutoff pressure is less than the irrigation zone demand would be at that pressure.

2. Increase the flow capacity of the irrigation zone by using higher flow heads or more heads, so that the flow demand of the zone at the shutoff pressure is more than the pump capacity at the shutoff pressure.

3. Throttle the output of the pump so that the pressure at the discharge of the pump is increased, thereby reducing the pump capacity to match the irrigation zone demand, and preventing the irrigation zone from reaching the shutoff setting of the pressure switch. A CSV can be used to throttle the pump.

A CSV is a regulator that throttles the flow so that the pump capacity at the higher inlet pressure of the CSV matches the capacity of the irrigation zone at the outlet pressure of the regulator. A CSV has an internal bypass so that it will reach shutoff pressure of the switch when demand is shut off.

Because the CSV throttles the flow there is energy loss and it requires more kWHr per 1000 gallons of water pumped. That may be inconsistent with your desire to reduce electricity costs.

If you are using a jet pump you would save electricity by converting to a submersible pump. They are much more efficient.

The most efficient operation will be operate the irrigation zones near the nominal and most efficient operating point of a submersible pump. That is the system described in 2 above. You can adjust the timer to deliver the same inches of water to the turf.
 

Valveman

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1. I would not recommend increasing the pressure switch setting to eliminate cycling. You are already at 50-70, any higher and it will be detrimental to your plumbing and fixtures. You also would need to know the max pressure that the pump will build, so as not to set the off setting to close to a pressure that is not achievable, which would destroy the pump.

2. I also would not try to match the irrigation demands to the max output of the pump. With 6 people in the house, someone is going to need water in the house at the same time the sprinklers are running. If the sprinklers are using all the water, the pressure will be very low in the house and a shower would not be possible.

3. The CSV will turn your pump into a variable flow pump that will not cycle as long as you are using at least 1 GPM. This allows you to irrigate anyway required by your lawn while keeping the irrigation flow rate lower than the max available by the pump. Then extra water is available for showers and other things even while the irrigation is running.

Throttling the pump with a CSV will increase the life of your pump system and may even reduce the power consumption of the well pump, depending on the flow rates and how much the cycling is reduced. You need a way to tell how much power is being used by each system. Depending on the temperature and how long the pump runs, the hot tub is probably the biggest portion of your energy use.
 

moltman

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OK...more questions

Valveman: thanks for the input. I too thought the Hot Tub was the biggest $$cost for electricty, but when I turned it off for 45days (to make sure it was off for a bull billing cycle) my electric bill only dropped $31.00. When we bought the place, I remember the inspector saying we a pump flow rate of 14GPM but I dont recall the psi. My guess is that I need to have someone come out evaluate the system demands vs system performance, from all angles, with the monthly cost of its operations being primary. Question: should going to a larger pressure tank (and how much larger would you recommend with a 1.5hp submersible pump) and using a CSV reduce my monthly utility costs and would it increase the life of the pump (obviously a large cost item for replacement)?
Thanks for your input!
moltman
 

Valveman

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Something is wrong! A 1.5 HP pump should only use that much power if it runs all the time. You must have a leak somewhere. How much of the time does your pump run? Such as average on for 5 minutes and off for 5 minutes, or on all the time, or what?
 

moltman

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how long is it on?

Thats a good question...I sat by the pressure tank for 10minutes today after replacing the pressure switch and watched the pressure gauge...there was no pressure bleed off in that 10minute period...however, my sprinkler system is set up to begin running at midnight, every other day. It takes approximately 4hrs for all of the zones to get water. A square footage "guestimate" of irrigatble area is about 4800 square feet of turf and then there are the drip lines for bushes and such.

ideas???
 

Valveman

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Four hours a day should not cause that kind of electric bill. You need to simulate all the irrigation zones running at a time of day you can watch it. While the irrigation is on does the pump run steady or cycle on and off rapidly? Drip zones usually run for long periods. What does the pump do while the drip is running? I have a ½ HP that runs 24/7. The electric bill is about $50.00 a month. Therefore a 1.5 HP should only be about $150.00 or maybe $200.00 per month even if it runs 24/7.
 

Raucina

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I assume your hot tub has a gas heater, not electric. I think the bulk of your bill is from the six people in the house. Send four kids to college and I'll bet it goes to 98$ a month with out without a new pump.
 

moltman

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Test is coming!

valveman: you mentioned 4hrs/day for irrigation should NOT create the electric bill I have...thats just it, I only water every other day. Just to be clear, my utility is charging .093/KWh or 9.3cents for the actual energy and delivery.

Raucina: as for the family of six...the house we moved from with a family of 6 only ran me, on average, $80-105/month. We live in Colorado so we dont often have need for A/C, but we do have it.

valveman: looks like I'll be setting up a test this coming weekend!

Thanks All!
 

Raucina

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I had a bill double like that and watched the meter for a few days, finally shutting off breaker by breaker and isolating the draw. I found a rather small leak at an electric weater heater that kept a 4500 watt element on full time. This was in a crawl space with a dirt floor, so not noticable.

Here we pay about 10 cents per kw. I have several services all on wells with some irrigation, and 3 households with 2 persons average 80 to 110$ per month. Turn on an electric hot tub and bump that to 200$ . One place with 5 persons averages 175$ with gas water heat.

4 hours a day with 1.5 HP should get you about $24 a month added to the bill.

When comparing past bills, did you have gas doing some of the work at the other house? Makes a huge difference.
 
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