Plumber said 12GPG is not hard enough for softener, could cause damage?

[latexyankee]

Finally getting around to having the fleck 5600sxt installed. Had one plumber say that anything below 10gpg would cause damage/corrosion to copper pipes. Isn't this info outdated? He was suggesting a $350 big box store unit that is just a filter to get rid of the build up on our appliances and shower walls/doors etc. He was ALMOST saying the softener I have wouldn't accomplish that? I actually trust the man as a plumber but perhaps his water softener knowledge is outdated.

I read here for weeks did my math over and over before making the purchase. 12gpg isn't considered very hard to most here but its enough for the wife to complain about her hair constantly and make the showers look terrible and the dishwasher underperforms as I have to descale it almost monthly. Itchy dry skin etc...

I have the unit and am not returning it so its here and we are going to install. Is there anything I should be worried about? Is the target GPG not 0-3? Wondering how I should proceed once installed. City water, measured at 10-11gpg so I add a grain or 2 for a total of 12-13. Softener is 10% crosslink resin.

Thanks

 

[WorthFlorida]

There are probably millions of homes with softeners and copper pipe. Never had a problem with my home in Illinois where I hag 29gpg. You do want 0-3.

Depending on how long the house has been without a softener other item might popup after the installation. Water heaters, especially gas models, will accumulate heavy amounts of minerals at the bottom of the tank. Softwater may dislodge some of it and clog up aerators. If you have a separate water heater more than ten years old, consider budgeting in a replacement.

Use 1/4-1/2 the amount of detergent for the washing machine and dishwasher. The solid DW detergent tabs or liquid packets may be too much detergent and cause etching on glassware where they become cloudy.

Replumb so the outside spigots remain on hard water for irritation. Soft water will stymie plants, even indoor ones. Do have one soft water spigot for car washing. With soft water you'll hardly need to wipe the vehicle down to prevent spotting.

Softwater will cause a very slippery surface for a bath tub. Most tubs have an etched surface, if not need to use a mat Or anti slip appliqués. Also note that soft water will leave a slippery feeling on the skin.

Hard Water by the Numbers in GPG - HomeWater101

If you’re new to the numbers associated with hard water, here’s a breakdown of what you'll see in your research as well as some helpful references.

homewater101.com

 

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[Bannerman]

Water treatment is a specialty field which many plumbers are not trained in.

Technically, hardness exceeding 1 gpg (17.1 ppm) is considered hard, but many do not recognize the need for a softener unless their water hardness exceeds 10 gpg.

Water softeners should reduce hardness to less than 1 gpg regardless if the initial raw water hardness is 6, 12, 20 or 50 gpg.

Your family is experiencing issues which a water softener will likely correct.

Big box store softeners are typically manufactured to sell at the lowest price possible, with low quality components and a short service life and so they are not considered a good investment. Although the Fleck 5600 utilizes a design that is several decades old, it continues to be a reliable high quality control valve with a service life exceeding several decades when routine periodic maintenance is performed.

You didn't specify the total capacity for your softener. If you state the total capacity (or the resin tank dimensions ie: 9X48, 10X54, 12X52), and your water usage details (or number of occupants to estimate water consumption), the BLFC rate (should be specified on a label affixed nearby to the brine tube connection), we can assist with programming to ensure the unit will operate efficiently.

 

[LLigetfa]

Had one plumber say that anything below 10gpg would cause damage/corrosion to copper pipes.

That plumber doesn't know that a softener works with ion exchange so the more hardness there is the more sodium ions there will be in the softened water.

 

[latexyankee]

Water treatment is a specialty field which many plumbers are not trained in.

Technically, hardness exceeding 1 gpg (17.1 ppm) is considered hard, but many do not recognize the need for a softener unless their water hardness exceeds 10 gpg.

Water softeners should reduce hardness to less than 1 gpg regardless if the initial raw water hardness is 6, 12, 20 or 50 gpg.

Your family is experiencing issues which a water softener will likely correct.

Big box store softeners are typically manufactured to sell at the lowest price possible, with low quality components and a short service life and so they are not considered a good investment. Although the Fleck 5600 utilizes a design that is several decades old, it continues to be a reliable high quality control valve with a service life exceeding several decades when routine periodic maintenance is performed.

You didn't specify the total capacity for your softener. If you state the total capacity (or the resin tank dimensions ie: 9X48, 10X54, 12X52), and your water usage details (or number of occupants to estimate water consumption), the BLFC rate (should be specified on a label affixed nearby to the brine tube connection), we can assist with programming to ensure the unit will operate efficiently.

Thanks,

The unit is 1cubic ft or 32k grains.

 

[latexyankee]

That plumber doesn't know that a softener works with ion exchange so the more hardness there is the more sodium ions there will be in the softened water.

His answer was the sodium will cause build up and the copper to fail

 

[Bannerman]

The unit is 1cubic ft or 32k grains.

For the best balance of hardness removal efficiency, soft water quality and capacity per regeneration cycle, the recommended softener Capacity setting is 24 (24,000 grains) as only 8 lbs salt will regenerate that amount of capacity each cycle.

To determine the appropriate Brine Fill setting to dissolve 8 lbs salt, I had requested to know your unit's BLFC flow rate. If the BLFC (brine line flow control = brine tank fill rate) is 0.5 GPM, then the appropriate BF setting will be 6 minutes which will cause 9 lbs salt to be dissolved. If the BLFC flow rate is 0.25 GPM, then the BF setting should be 11 minutes to dissolve 8.25 lbs salt. If the BLFC rate is 0.125 GPM, then 22 minutes BF should be programed which will also dissolve 8.25 lbs salt.

I also requested to know your usual water consumption amount as the Reserve setting should be programmed to equal 1 average day water consumption. We typically estimate each person will consume 60 gallons soft water per day so if there are 2 residents, then the Reserve setting should be 120 gallons, 180 for 3 ppl, 240 for 4 etc unless your family's water consumption is vastly higher.

Sodium does not accumulate on the inside of pipes whereas calcium and magnesium, the minerals most responsible for hard water, do accumulate on the inside surfaces of pipes, and particularly on the hotest surfaces within water heaters & kettles.

 

[latexyankee]

For the best balance of hardness removal efficiency, soft water quality and capacity per regeneration cycle, the recommended softener Capacity setting is 24 (24,000 grains) as only 8 lbs salt will regenerate that amount of capacity each cycle.

To determine the appropriate Brine Fill setting to dissolve 8 lbs salt, I had requested to know your unit's BLFC flow rate. If the BLFC (brine line flow control = brine tank fill rate) is 0.5 GPM, then the appropriate BF setting will be 6 minutes which will cause 9 lbs salt to be dissolved. If the BLFC flow rate is 0.25 GPM, then the BF setting should be 11 minutes to dissolve 8.25 lbs salt. If the BLFC rate is 0.125 GPM, then 22 minutes BF should be programed which will also dissolve 8.25 lbs salt.

I also requested to know your usual water consumption amount as the Reserve setting should be programmed to equal 1 average day water consumption. We typically estimate each person will consume 60 gallons soft water per day so if there are 2 residents, then the Reserve setting should be 120 gallons, 180 for 3 ppl, 240 for 4 etc unless your family's water consumption is vastly higher.

Sodium does not accumulate on the inside of pipes whereas calcium and magnesium, the minerals most responsible for hard water, do accumulate on the inside surfaces of pipes, and particularly on the hotest surfaces within water heaters & kettles.

@Bannerman You're a hero on here. So Im not sure of the Brine flow rate is as I'm digging into the manual this weekend. This is the unit if you're interested and I understand the risk with online vendors, its all we could afford atm and the wife basically demanded a softener sooner than later.

Upgraded 1 cubic Foot (32k) On Demand Whole Home Water Softener with 10% Crosslink Resin, Pentair tank

32,000 grain capacity with longer lasting 10% resin treats up to 8 gallons per minute with the digital Fleck 5600SXT control head.

store.afwfilters.com

As for usage its pretty low all things considered. Here is a copy/paste from another post a few months back regarding the math....



3.5 person household, municipal water, hardness level 10GPG according to Hach 5-B, thought this would be much higher, it definitely feels like it. Iron basically non-existent according to strip test.

Usage:

So apparently we don't use much water at all compared to standard Americans. My past 4 water invoices billed every 3 months are as follows:
11K
12K
13K
14K these last two invoices I was also watering a new very long area of grass seed every day for 2 weeks and also washing cars as its the warmer months. This has to be why its 2-3k gallons more.

Even If I rounded it down to 3 household members this is still way below the conservative estimate of 60 GPD per person. For the purpose of a softener purchase I've decided to round our usage up to 15k per billing cycle or 5k gallons per month.

Math:

15000/3=5k gallons per month. 5k/30=166 gallons per day. 166x10GPG=1666 1666x7= 11.6 lets round up to 12k GPG per week.

Is the standard to get a softener that will regenerate once per week? Many articles state this. Based on this math which is very conservative It looks like I can side down from what I initially thought. However on my dealers site there is only a $20 increase per .5cft of resin. $711 for 24k grains, $719 for 32k grains, $739 for 40k grains etc...so it doesn't break the bank nor save a ton of cash. But apparently I could go with a smaller unit if the goal or if its needed/instructed to regenerate once per week for the health of the unit. May be pushing it slightly in summer months.

I can update the thread with the brine flow if needed by Sunday