Please help me identify which air gap to use

Users who are viewing this thread

Bizzle

New Member
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
My softener is outside along the side of my house. I found this cap near my softener and was wondering if I could use it to drain my discharge into:
efhr2Ef.jpg

and if so, what kind of air gap would I use
XLxwBHH.jpg
 

Bizzle

New Member
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
Thank you for the response, Terry. Does this mean if it is untrapped, I can't put an air gap over it because then it would just vent sewage fumes into the air? Is there something other than an air gap I could use in this situation?

Or, if I need an entirely different location to discharge my softener effluent, would you mind offering some suggestions? The places that might be available would be the dirt area in the picture approximately 3x5 feet under the shed, an 18" x 80' strip of dirt covered with gravel outside the shed that runs alongside my driveway down to the street, and a couple planters in front of my house with roses, hedges, and palms.

Would any of those places be suitable for the waste? Can I bury a french drain or something else in that patch of dirt or will this compromise the rest of my soil (or foundation) over decades?
 

Mikey

Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
Messages
3,024
Reaction score
17
Points
38
Location
Hansville, Washington
It's in an awkward spot, but could he just replace the cleanout plug with a MPT fitting with a trap on it, making it a mini-stack, and use it as a drain? It could still be used as a cleanout.
 

Bizzle

New Member
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
It looks awkward in the photo, but that door is almost never used and certainly could be closed off. That entrance leads into a shed/leanto that holds the water heater to my master and kids' bathrooms. Once you step inside, there's nothing there except the water heater, the water softener, the patch of dirt, and up on top of the roof of the shed is my A/C (with its condensation line just dripping into that dirt patch, which I'd like to fix while we're on the topic of properly draining things away from my foundation). There's an opening into my backyard on the other side of that structure but you have to duck down to get under it. On the *outside* of the structure, there's an entirely different gate that allows access from my side to the rear so that door in the photo is always locked and essentially useless (unless I wanted to make the meter readers crawl around to get into my side yard :D).

Worst case scenario, I could go right through the wall into one of the bathrooms and tie into a trap there but I'd rather avoid that if possible.
 

Bizzle

New Member
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
Here's a longer shot of the whole area:
Lz4Wux2.jpg


You might be able to just barely see the blue saltwater tank on the right.
Another option I might have would be to run the discharge line out to the back of my yard, which would be about an 80-100 foot run.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
brass-stops-drains-drain-plugs-42373-64_145.jpg

Are you asking if you could get a brass cleanout plug with the same thread as your plastic plug, drill a 1-5/8 hole in the top, solder a piece of 1.5 inch copper pipe (top and bottom) to that brass plug, mount a sanitary tee on top of the pipe, feed a p-trap into the side with an 18 inch standpipe which could hold a widely available air gap, and run the top of the san-tee to an AAV?

Somebody who did this might want to add some support to keep any high side forces from breaking something.

The proper answer may be that you would probably not be allowed to do that by code. I am not a plumber. So I am not sure.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
discharge my softener effluent
Just as you refer to 'effluent' and 'discharge', many areas do not allow for this type of discharge directly into the environment. Some locations, in particular, parts of California, are placing restrictions on softeners due to the problems created by their discharge. You would be advised to investigate your location's code requirements before proceeding further.

Assuming the softener will need to be discharged into a sewer or septic system, what is the prospect of replacing the door with a permanent wall section, and altering the buried drain line serving the clean-out, to add a vertical stack within the new wall so that a trap may extend from the wall? The new stack can then carry-on through the roof to serve as a stack vent and the existing cleanout can remain accessible.
 

Bizzle

New Member
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
That's a metal cap, not plastic, but yes I'm interested in what kinds of modifications I could do to it in order to discharge into it.

I live on the California/Mexico border in the desert and we don't have any water softener specific regulations like you'd find in the coastal and populated cities. For better or for worse, imagine I'm in 20th century Mexico as far as codes/regulations/compliance. That's not to say I ignore the rules, far from it, just that I seem to be very rare in my region resulting in 1) not very many licensed contractors in the area, 2) not very many permitted builds in the area, and 3) apathetic inspectors who sometimes need to be reminded of the code they're enforcing. Completely unrelated but by way of example of the lack of regulation where I'm at in comparison to the rest of the state--we don't require vehicle smog checks.

In any case, my question is if I can modify that pipe (and by modify I am thinking screwing something into the threads when I remove the cap and not breaking concrete to get down into the ground and actually change it out) to vent from my roof with a horizontal trap for my discharge line, can I simply raise the pipe just enough to place that trap like say 4-10 inches? Or do I have to run it up to the roof and leave it uncapped so it can vent in order for the trap to work?

The more general question regarding the space is that the door is near useless other than to remove/replace the water heater. I could easily leave the door intact and locked for the next time I replace the water heater or I could close it off and drag the beast under the opening and use the actual side door. I don't know why someone put two doors there!
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
That's a metal cap, not plastic, but yes I'm interested in what kinds of modifications I could do to it in order to discharge into it.
The one in your picture is plastic, probably ABS.
The one in the picture I posted is brass.

You can usually thread a metal cleanout cap thread into plastic. You would try the fit before doing more. You would be careful to not cross-thread.

You can solder to brass. You cannot solder to plastic.

Bannerman has suggested a more normal robust way to add a standpipe. Running a vent pipe up above the roof is better than an AAV. An AAV is easier.
 
Last edited:

Mikey

Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
Messages
3,024
Reaction score
17
Points
38
Location
Hansville, Washington
Given the local codes, I'd screw in a MPT/female adapter, run a pipe up to the roof, and plumb in a proper trapped fitting at a convenient height. Run your condensate into it, too,I suppose. Maybe add a coupling above the ground so you could unscrew the lower part of the array to access the cleanout more easily.
 

Bizzle

New Member
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
The one in your picture is plastic, probably ABS.
It's a 5lb chunk of oxidized metal (you can also see the metal grain and oxidation in the original picture)
eEfLkFB.jpg


The threads are also metal--I haven't checked to see if it's even air tight.

Could someone explain the reasoning for running the pipe all the way to the roof? Is that the best/only way to ensure gases don't escape out of the p-trap?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
Could someone explain the reasoning for running the pipe all the way to the roof? Is that the best/only way to ensure gases don't escape out of the p-trap?
The reason for a vent for p-trap is to keep the p-trap from siphoning dry, losing the water seal. The purpose of the water seal is to keep gasses from coming out of the p-trap.

The purpose of having the open vent go above the roof is to keep the gases from passing through the vent into the room. The vent can also be an AAV-- a device that admits air but does not let air come out. The vent through the roof is more reliable.

Question: are the threads on that cap 8 threads per inch, and is the OD a little under 4 inches?
 

Bizzle

New Member
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
Yes, the outside diameter is about 3 3/8 and it's 3/4" thick with 5-6 threads depending on where you measure it from.

On closer inspection, it looks like the threads (in the hole, not the metal plug) may be plastic with a plastic vertical pipe.
 
Last edited:

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
Given the local codes, I'd screw in a MPT/female adapter, run a pipe up to the roof, and plumb in a proper trapped fitting at a convenient height. Run your condensate into it, too,I suppose. Maybe add a coupling above the ground so you could unscrew the lower part of the array to access the cleanout more easily.
Fine idea.

I wanted to check the threads at the store first before commenting. It does appear that the plug could be replaced by an adapter with a 3 inch MNPT thread. On that thread could be brass, pvc, abs, or even steel.

From there adapters would mount the trap, standpipe and AAV.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks