Pinholes in Copper Piping

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WHx

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Hello Experts,

I had a pinhole in my water supply line gushing today. I fixed the section, but there is still a slow trickle down the pipe comming from further up the wall. The copper pipe is cheap Type M and my neighbors have been fighting issues with it for a few years now - I have been lucky so far. Our plan is about 34 years old and clearly the pipes are failing pre-maturely. One of my neighbors had his replaced (with copper no less), the other has fixed about half a dozend leaks so far. Clearly, long (medium) term I need a plan on how to replace the piping and what to replace it with. Short term, I need to fix the trickle (or do I?). Hence, multiple questions below.

I am also planning a remodel of my master bath room which sits (almost) above where the water trickles down the vertical pipe. The project was planned to start in 2-3 weeks and includes tearing down the flooring to the floor boards, replacing a dual vanity with a single, and converting a tub/shower combo with a shower.

Ok, here are the questions:

1) Since I will have access to the flooring boards above the leaks, would you try to fix the slow trickle leak through the floor? Replacing a cut out in the floor seems easier than in the ceiling. (Actually, the pipe is in the wall behind a kitchen cupboard and there is a bulkhead above the cabinet). At least, if it does not look nice, it will be covered by the flooring.

2) Should I start tearing into the floor (it's tiled with additional plywood underneath) right a way or do you think I could live with the trickle for a couple weeks without too much risk? The vertical pipe that the trickle runs down surfaces in my loundry room which does not have a finished ceiling.

3) With my bathroom re-model and access to the flooring, what other things should I take care off considering that other sections of the copper pipe will fail in the future? Replace lines to the vanity with PEX?
I believe the supply lines to my kitchen counter are also running across there. Should I replace those as well?
Or should I just try to fish PEX through openings and let them lay there until they are needed?

4) Is PEX the way to go for an entire piping replacement? Any recommendations on timing for the replacement? Compared to the neighbor who already replaced his pipes, our pipes look considerably better. (Neighbor had thick green copper oxide crust every 8-12" ) I see some greenish spots (not crusty) every few yards.

Thanks for your thoughts!
 

Reach4

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4) Is PEX the way to go for an entire piping replacement? Any recommendations on timing for the replacement? Compared to the neighbor who already replaced his pipes, our pipes look considerably better. (Neighbor had thick green copper oxide crust every 8-12" ) I see some greenish spots (not crusty) every few yards.
I think so. I would strongly prefer plastic fittings F1960 (expansion) for this. https://www.pexuniverse.com/types-of-pex-fittings.

Expansion PEX A fittings are bigger ID than crimp fittings.

The same nominal size copper and PEX are the same OD. The PEX is smaller ID. Pex is supposed to be supported every 32 inches or less.

How acidic is your water? A cheap pH meter can be useful. City water or well water? You can treat water to make it not attack the copper and metal fixtures. There are plenty of plastic fixtures however.

Fixing a trickle leak sure sounds a little urgent to me. I am not a plumber.

With the copper repair, if you can access it, and drain the water, there is a repair coupling that can do it. That is often a you-cut-to-length piece. It can bridge a gap that you have cut out. You solder it into place.

Another alternative is a Sharkbite repair coupling. https://www.sharkbite.com/products/brass-push-slip-coupling
Pipe does not have to be totally empty of water.
 
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Dj2

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Re-piping is inevitable, the question is: Copper Type L or PEX?
Go with what most people go in your area, price and the plumber(s) are factors too.
Get estimates for both, and go with the one you're comfortable with.
 

Fitter30

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Need to have the water tested for the PH. CPVC or PEX for the repipe . Copper shouldn't fail in 34 years maybe hot water lime up but not rot thru.
 

Helper Dave

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I'd want to locate and fix the leak ASAP. Sure, it's just trickling down the pipe, but what else is it spraying all over in your walls? It'll ruin a lot more, and cause mold growth pretty quick.

Get a jump start on demo if you had plans to rip apart that bathroom anyway, and try to find that leak.
 

Jeff H Young

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Leaks in copper must be fixed imediatly. Its your house though, If your insurance finds out you ignored known leaks and submited a claim I think they would deny it so if you left for a day and came back to a flood or mold you would likely be on your own.
Given the history of your neighbors (assuming same builder) no question you need a repipe in my opinion. If there isnt something causing it in the water. Then Type L copper would be an option. (most expensive as well) I havent seen a house plumbed in my area in close to 20 years in CPVC, Im sure there are but I havent heard it being used much. So I would skip straight to PEX PEX A expander seems to be far more popular than crimp or clamp joints but cant be certain that they are or are not all worthwhile.
 

Sylvan

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I never used M tubing even for heating I use L for drainage and above ground water supply and K under ground

Normally copper failures are contributed to poor installation (acid flux, no reaming) , excessive velocity especially on hot water
supply the water velocity in a plumbing system should not exceed 5 to 8 feet per second , acidotic water causes failures

Prior to about 1970 the most common cause of Type 1 pitting was carbon films left in the bore by the manufacturing process.

Have the water supply tested and also the pressure
 

Gsmith22

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if you do the water testing, make sure its comprehensive so you can calculate the LSI of the water. pH is only one component of a variety of important factors. I would bet you have low LSI water where by there aren't enough other dissolved components in the water to plate out and "protect" your pipe from the lower pH. You could have marginally low pH (like say 6.8) but limited dissolved ions (like calcium or magnesium) that want to scale and cover the inside of your pipes providing a protective layer so the pH really drives the corrosion. My pH (I'm on a well) is generally between 6 and 6.5 but because I have high LSI water I have 30 year old copper with no pinholes. Scaling due to hardness is my main issue so I have various water treatment devices that remove hardness (which lowers LSI) and then raise pH (so it doesn't pinhole the copper).
 

WHx

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Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. The dribble down the pipe completely stopped after an hour or two. Might have been water that had sprayed up earlier. My plumber's buisiness manager (significant other - quite compotent) says their customers usually just replace a leak at a time - Opening up all the walls and ceilings is just too disruptive/destructive. She suggested to replace just what is easily accessible. I am not sure about that as what is not easily accessible is what I am worried about. The other is more easily noticed and fixed.

For the bathroom re-model. What are your thought on cutting into the floors to access and replace the piping?
 

Jeff H Young

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Cut open whatever needs to repair the leak its a ballance between least destruction and ease of work.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Don't patch that system. Replace it all. If the entire neighborhood is experiencing pinhole leaks you're not going to avoid it. PEX is definately the way to replace in a remodel since it requires many less elbows if planned out properly.
 
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