Perpetually Wet Floor in Pump Room

[Andrew Taylor]

Hiya, folks - a quick Google search brought me here, and I hope I'm in the right place. We bought a house with a water well about two years ago, and ever since we moved in, the concrete floor in the well room has been wet. Sometimes it just looks damp, and sometimes, there's actual standing water on the floor. I've got a metal pressure tank, but it's not sweating, and there are no leaks in the visible plumbing.

I'm in the process of rebuilding the attached garage and workshop area, and I'd like to use the well room for some other things (it's huge - about 10' x 10'), but right now I can't put anything in there because it either rusts or gets waterlogged. I've tried opening the door and putting an air mover on it to dry it out, but no dice - left the air mover going for several weeks with no noticeable change in the wet floor.

Can anyone give me an idea of what to look for? I'm kind of at a loss at this point. Thanks in advance for your assistance!

 

[Reach4]

How high is the floor compared to the ground outside of the room?

You may have a water leak. If you will be away for a while (such as a vacation), turn off the pump. Let the water pressure go to zero.

When you come back, if the room is dryer, then something is leaking.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Andrew Taylor]

How high is the floor compared to the ground outside of the room?

You may have a water leak. If you will be away for a while (such as a vacation), turn off the pump. Let the water pressure go to zero.

When you come back, if the room is dryer, then something is leaking.

I think the floor is higher than the ground, but it probably isn't by much. Not sure when we'll be gone long enough to dry the room; I'll have to think about that one. Maybe I could spread sawdust to absorb existing moisture, then kill pump, open downstream valves to empty tank, and give it 24-48 hours to see if the moisture comes back? Not sure that'll be long enough timeframe.

 

[Reach4]

I was even wondering if you had a big pit.

Maybe use the wet-vac to remove as much water as you can. Maybe a fan could speed drying. Sawdust could work too.

Then see which way the water is flowing. You could zero in on the source I suspect.

If you tie strips of cloth or TP around vertical pipes, you could detect water traveling down the outside of the pipe.

 

[Andrew Taylor]

You know, in thinking about this, it occurs to me that I don't think there's any underground pipes. The pipes from the well bore into the pressure tank are visible above ground; the pipes from the pressure tank to the house are visible above ground for several feet until they disappear under the concrete (in the opposite direction of where the water is standing). What else could possibly be underground?

I'm thinking the pressure tank itself might be leaking at the bottom. It's likely the original tank, 30+ years old. It's galvanized and sitting directly on the concrete (or perhaps embedded in the concrete? I guess the original owner could've poured the concrete around the tank, although I don't think that's the case). Could it be as simple as replacing the tank?

 

[Reach4]

Sure. Post a photo.

If things work nicely now, other than the moisture, you could get a similar tank. If you switch to a tank with a diaphragm, you would make some changes in your well. With a galvanized tank, there is a thing that is done to add air, and an "air volume control" releases excess air. With a tank with precharged air, you don't want air added. The older system you have now can improve water quality because of the added air.

 

[Andrew Taylor]

Dark out there now - I'll take a few pbotos tomorrow and get them posted. I'm pretty sure there's an air volume control thing - while I was out there cleaning up this afternoon, I heard a hissing sound from the far side of the tank. I worked my way around there and sure enough there's a pressure gauge on the side of the tank and it's releasing air. Never noticed it before today.

 

[Andrew Taylor]

Not sure about posting images. I'll give it a shot and hopefully it'll work. Image 1 is where the wellbore comes up (inside the garage, just outside the well room). Image 2 is a wider shot that shows the wellbore on the far left and the pressure tank on the right. Image 3 is a close up of the lines out of the pressure tank, and image 4 is an overall shot of the well room with the wet floor.

 

[Reach4]

Pictures posted nicely. (I would have said "posted well", but you know...)

Observations. To pull the pump, it looks like there would be overhead obstructions. Maybe it is OK, and that is just the perspective.

Pipe from pump goes into a baby blue box. What is that? I presume the water goes to the pressure tank.

I don't see the pressure switch. I presume that is near that 2-pipe area.

So pressure tank leak sure looks very probable. You could drag the wet-vac hose between the tank and the softener to make sure the flow is from left to right, as we expect. You could watch the flow of water. A bit of sawdust etc could be used to observe the water flow also. Be glad this is a gradual fail. Maybe turn off the breaker when leaving home for a while, until this is fixed.

 

[Andrew Taylor]

Ok, I think I've pretty definitively narrowed the problem down to the tank. Spent all day cleaning and drying out there, then spread a layer of wood shavings on the floor. Water is clearly working its way out from the base of the tank.

I talked to my well guy and he wants $950 to replace the tank with a same-size unit. Price includes all materials and labor. Any thoughts?

 

[Reach4]

Sounds reasonable to me. And if I think it is reasonable, it is probably better than reasonable.

 

[Valveman]

Yeah those tanks can leak from the under side. Do you have iron or sulfur in the water? If not now is the time to switch to a bladder/diaphragm style tank and ave your self a lot of problems. The pump man will have to remove the bleeder orifice from 5' down the well. But then you would be able to use one of these to get stronger constant pressure to the house. And with a 10 gallon size tank at the most, it will cost less than half of the big tank and take up a fraction of the space.

 

[Andrew Taylor]

We likely have sulfur - we had a well at a nearby property and it was rotten eggs every time you opened a valve that hadn't been opened in a while. On this one, how hard would it be to swap the tank myself? My well guy has disappeared, and I need to get this room put back together. It looks like it's only two fittings - an input and an output. If I go back with the same size/style of tank, is that a DIY project?

 

[Reach4]

It looks like it's only two fittings - an input and an output. If I go back with the same size/style of tank, is that a DIY project? You will need to empty the tank before moving.

Two fittings? There are two connections to your pressure tank? I had been thinking just one.

Yes. You want a hand truck and/or a helper. Also, have a ratchet strap to strap the tank to the hand truck.

But first, draw a diagram of what you have. Include pressure switch. That blue box on the right of image 1. Is the other blue box a pump controller? Tell us about that too.

And what are the connections to the piping in the lower left of images 3 and 4? I suspect that is a plastic check valve in the vertical pipe. Is it?

With your new galvanized tank, you will have a new AVC (air volume control). In tanks, bigger is better usually, and you seem to have room.

With PVC piping, cutting some old with a hacksaw and using new pipe and fittings is usually easiest.

I am not speaking from experience.

 

[Andrew Taylor]

Took more photos this morning. I want to be sure I understand what I'm getting int0 before I take a stab at this. It seems simple enough, but those are usually the projects that bite me in the backside. Photos show where the well bore comes up out of the slab, the control box just above it, a leaking metal fitting between two PVC pipes just after the well bore / before the tank, the input side of the tank including pressure switch, a second control box on the wall above the pressure switch, the air gauge on the tank, and the output side of the tank. Hope that helps. I found a local vendor who sells tanks, am planning to stop by sometime today or tomorrow to see how whatever he has compares with what I've got. My preference would be a like-for-like replacement.

 

[Andrew Taylor]

Whoops, not all the photos uploaded. Here's the rest... [Note: "Where the Wet Things Go" is a "just in case" photo. We had a leak there a few months ago and had to bust up some concrete to expose a damaged section of PVC. All that plumbing is new. The floor in the well room on the other side of that wall has been wet for nearly two years and is still wet, so I'm pretty sure the two things aren't related. Just wanted to include it here for posterity.]

 

[Reach4]

Interesting.... the tank has a separate input and output. I see you have a union on the input side.

Thruwall 1 shows one thing I thought was a blue box was a wall.

I don't know what control box 2 is. Maybe somebody can recognize it. There may be a model number on the label.

1.5 HP is a big pump for a house. That would be a appropriate for maybe a 300 ft well typically.

Leaking Fitting is your combination check valve and snifter valve. Is the leaking from the top or elsewhere?

You could use PEX. If you are going to do other plumbing projects, you might consider that. It's a little easier to work with than PVC, but PVC is not bad. New codes call for not adding PVC to house interiors. If you have not worked with PEX, it is not as flexible as you might imagine, but is more flexible than PVC.

 

[Andrew Taylor]

Well at my other property was 350+ feet, so I wouldn't be surprised if this one was 300+. The union on the input side was user error...we were banging around out there last summer and the cover fell off of control box #2 (the one hanging on the wall, directly above all that input piping, with no cover on it). Cover landed on the PVC, pipe exploded and we had a flash flood almost instantly. It was almost comical. I think the plumber installed the union when he was making the repair. I can't really tell where the snifter valve is leaking; seems like it's from the bottom, but that could just be gravity playing tricks on me.

I've used PEX (been a builder for about 20 years). Where would it go, in this situation? Are you suggesting replacing the input side of the setup with PEX?

 

[Reach4]

Well at my other property was 350+ feet, so I wouldn't be surprised if this one was 300+. The union on the input side was user error...we were banging around out there last summer and the cover fell off of control box #2 (the one hanging on the wall, directly above all that input piping, with no cover on it). Cover landed on the PVC, pipe exploded and we had a flash flood almost instantly. It was almost comical. I think the plumber installed the union when he was making the repair. I can't really tell where the snifter valve is leaking; seems like it's from the bottom, but that could just be gravity playing tricks on me.

I've used PEX (been a builder for about 20 years). Where would it go, in this situation? Are you suggesting replacing the input side of the setup with PEX?

I would be thinking of replacing any PVC that I was cutting out with PEX. That little bit of extra flex could help. If the PVC is easy enough, I would stay with the PVC. The code thing about inside PVC is supposedly based on hot water. But rather than keep track of which pipes are hot, they just said no PVC added. Existing gets grandfathered. Note that PVC is bigger inside than PEX. Pipe diameter on the output of the tank is more important than the input. Have you identified the tank? Will it be the same, or will the size etc be different.

I like where your pressure switch is-- close to the tank input with a good diameter pipe between.

 

[Texas Wellman]

Leak could be coming from the air release (AVC) or the snifter valve. The AVC will intermittently leak sometimes because it has a float that can get stuck or little particles in the mechanism. The snifter valves always leak after a few months but should only leak when the pump is running.

Around these parts we are almost all galv tanks. When we change them to bladder most people complain that the water starts smelling due to the H2S. Personally I think all wells should be on bladder tanks (top quality tanks of course) and then treat the water afterwards. Much less headaches and much more reliable because the galv. tanks stay waterlogged all the time.

It's not a hard DIY job but I'm betting you'll make about a dozen trips to the store for misc. fittings and parts and things that you didn't realize. The tank can be rolled on it's bottom like a drum, they're not hard to move.

Good luck.